Carrying 3 catchers??
by cdubs3201 on Feb 22, 2012 9:51 AM EST
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http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/139927203.html
The Trib is talking about the possibility of the Twins carrying 3 catchers this year. I think that would be stupid to be honest. Send Drew down, he's had his shot and his bat is near worthless. Doumit can open up as the DH and swap in and out with Mauer and Morneau to give them a rest in the field when they need it. I'd much rather see them use that spot for a prospect that has a chance to be something in the future. We know what Drew brings to the plate and it isn't much.
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Can't agree more
But Gardy hates DHing his backup catcher in case something happens to his starting catcher. If Doumit is our primary DH, we will carry three catchers. But that’s as likely to be Towles as Butera, imo.
Two other possibilities would make Doumit simply the backup, rather than the DH. The first is that an outfielder emerges to supplant Willingham, where he can become the primary DH. The leading candidate for that is Plouffe. But Benson and Tosoni are also in the mix.
The second is the Sean Bourroughs can take enough DH at bats to ease Gardy’s worries about using his backup catcher as a DH on more than an occasional basis.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Feb 22, 2012 10:15 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Is that all we got?
Tosoni and Plouffe and Benson? We don’t have any other power hitting prospects we could call up?
Not for the outfield
Parmelee is a first baseman who could potentially DH. But he needs more time in AAA. Hughes is, well, Hughes—hurt and without a solid position. Dozier is an infielder. Hicks, Arcia, and Morales are the next wave, but they will be at AA this year and in need of at least two more years of seasoning before they’re ready. Sano, Rosario and Kepler are several years away.
Hermann or Lehmann could help off the bench in lieu of Butera or Towles. But I think the organization wants them to play everyday until they’re obviously better than either of those guys.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
This
They probably shouldn’t carry three catchers, but they probably will.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
Then fire Gardy
This scenario is so remote that it makes wasting a roster spot on a horrible player a ridiculous idea.
It's not remote
Joe can get hurt during the game. What is ridiculous is the problem with losing the DH. Worst case, you have to manage like an NL team for the rest of one game, whereupon you can add a third catcher for the next game.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
He can get hurt in a game, what 2 times a season?
That’s not a reason to waste a roster spot.
agree
When the worst-case scenario is that you have to either bat your pitcher or PH for him a couple times in a single game, and it’s not one that is likely to come up, burning a roster spot on an otherwise-useless player is freaking stupid.
unlikely
Besides, there are other players that can suit up in an emergency. Willingham has catching experience.
"My life has no purpose, no direction, no aim, no meaning, and yet I’m happy. I can’t figure it out. What am I doing right?" Snoopy(Charlie Brown's dog, not a rapper)
by carlpavanosmoustache on Feb 22, 2012 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
His career average is .197
But he hit .292 in 2004 and .310 in 2005.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
What's worse
Is having a pitcher hit so much worse than letting Butera Hit?
At least three pitchers on the team are better hitters than Butera
Marquis, Pavano and Perkins.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
It would be hilarious
If gardy was ejected in a game and the interim manager pinch hit a pitcher for butera due to an empty bench and butera’s 0-4 with 3 k’s night and the pitcher got a hit. What was Marquis’s average in the NL?
But what if it happens!?!?!??!!?!??!?!?!?!??!?!?
WHAT IF!?!??!?!?!?!??!?!?!?! You’d have to play THE REST OF THE GAME without a catcher!
Seriously: there’s a significant non-zero chance of winning anyway and you’re hurting yourself in ONE GAME that might never happen. At the cost of hurting your bench and your chances of winning most every other day.
That Gardy. So crafty.
by tobynotjason on Feb 24, 2012 12:17 AM EST up reply actions
I'm not having a cow over this.
Drew Butera, who is on the 40-man roster, remains the favorite to win the job because of his defense and familiarity with Twins pitchers. But J.R. Towles, a former top prospect with the Astros, is expected to push him this spring.
Gardenhire, however, said he didn’t want to make any official announcements yet about keeping three catchers.
“I have no thoughts,” Gardenhire said. “I just want to let it play itself out. At the end of spring we’ll see what the baseball team is going north. We’ll see how we get through it. We’ll make those decisions at the end. But if you’ve been around me, you know I’ve never had a problem with three catchers if I have a good enough baseball team to carry three catchers and have enough thump from the other positions that I don’t have to worry.”
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"Tell Gardy there's nobody around to protect him now." Ozzie Guillen
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Feb 22, 2012 5:40 PM EST reply actions
That's one helluva caveat
Not exactly a whole lot of thump elsewhere.
Take the prospect
We know Drew’s ceiling, we don’t know Towles’ which would be high.
Towles isn't a prospect
He’s another organization’s reject. He’s still probably better than Butera.
He's 28, so longer a prospect
He did hit in the minors though so he’s a AAAA catcher. That’s at least two-A’s better than Butera.
+1
Assuming their defense is at all comparable, he has to be better than Butera.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
I like carrying 3 catchers.
I really think the Twins view Ryan Doumit as an “emergency only” catcher. He gets hurt when he’s behind the plate. If we can go into the season with all 3 healthy (I know, that’s a big assumption) I think we view Joe as our everyday starter, Drew as our back-up, and Doumit as our DH 50-75% of the games. The other games, I think Doumit plays some RF and DH. He will very rarely play 1B and C if everything goes the way (I think) they plan.
Yep....wouldn't counton Doumit as the official backup C
which means we’re going to have 3.
As long as Butera isn’t that third, I guess I’ll have to be ok with it. I mean, what pull do I have? I’m just one fan with no vote. :(
The beard abides.
by Jason Kubel's Beard on Feb 22, 2012 9:19 PM EST up reply actions
That's contrary to what both Ryan and Antony said
They both said Doumit is the backup catcher. I have no reason to doubt them.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
I don't know
But Ryan is not a pushover like Smith was. As Antony said in Jesse’s interview, it’s a joint decision. But when the GM and Assistant GM say they spent $3 million plus incentives on a guy to be their backup catcher, I have a hard time believing Gardy will filibuster for a guy who will make $500,000 and had the worst offensive season by any player in Twins history last year. Gardy might complain, but he doesn’t have an argument.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
I think Gardy's argument will be Butera's defensive skills vs. Doumit's
And Butera’s familiarity with the Twins pitching staff.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"Tell Gardy there's nobody around to protect him now." Ozzie Guillen
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Feb 23, 2012 9:12 PM EST up reply actions
Bah
He’s a good defensive catcher. But you’d have to be Henry Blanco defensively to make up for his utter lack of offense. He’s no Henry Blanco.
As for pitching staff familiarity, it’s overrated. Did you see how often pitchers shook Drew off last year? Did you see how many times guys threw good pitches that got hammered? I thought Drew’s pitch calling was predictable. It’s the weakest part of his game. The only reason Pavano agreed to have him catch him is Pavano calls his own game. Drew’s weakness is least evident when he catches Pavano. When he catches less experienced guys, it becomes obvious, Duensing, and Liriano, e.g.
Drew’s defense is overrated because his offense is so bad, he has to have SOME redeeming qualities to remain a major leaguer. He doesn’t belong in the majors. With decent alternatives, Gardy can’t keep fighting for him.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Its a long season... any catcher will be "familiar" by May 1st
The “familiarity argument” is just rationalization from people who’ve already made up their mind.
Can Doumit play 1B?
Wasn’t he an OF as well?
He played there to get his bat in the lineup in the NL
DH makes lots of sense for Doumit when he’s not catching. You could argue that Willingham replaced Cuddyer and Doumit replaced Kubel. They just forgot to replace Butera.
Not well
There likely will be two better options on Gardy’s bench.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Doumit is a catcher in much the same way Jason Kubel is a corner OF
Yes Doumit can play catcher, but, one; he isn’t very good at it and two; he gets hurt when he’s back there.
"Baseball, it is said, is only a game. True. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole in Arizona." ~George F. Will
Um, catchers sometimes get hurt in collisions
That doesn’t mean he will inevitably get hurt at catcher. It’s his best position. If he’s going to be more than a DH, he will need to catch 30 games a year.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
True
If he is just a backup catcher I suppose that would also take some wear off his legs.
Still, he has been injury prone throughout his career (nearly every year of his MLB career he’s missed extended time due to injury).
"Baseball, it is said, is only a game. True. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole in Arizona." ~George F. Will
If he goes to the DL, a catcher will arrive from Rochester the very next day
I think we can guarantee that at least three players will catch Twins games this season.
This is all about wasting a roster spot every day for handling the remainder of the game during which an injury occurs.
How about trade for a prospect
I can’t imagine having to give up too much for a backup catcher prospect or more proven veteran than Drew effing Butera
Ramos is a proven kidnapping risk.
The Twins budget probably doesn’t allow for ransoms.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"Tell Gardy there's nobody around to protect him now." Ozzie Guillen
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Feb 23, 2012 9:14 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
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