Revere Channeling Daunte Culpepper For Strength
Ok, so the title's a bit misleading, but who can really resist a good Daunte Culpepper reference? I sure can't. Apologies in advance to those who pictured Revere praying to a Jobu-esque effigy of the former Vikings QB with whom he shares a number. I wish that were the case just as much as you do.
Yesterday Rhett Bollinger dropped a few outfield-related notes on us over at MLB.com, including one about Ben Revere's offseason training regime, which included regularly airing out long range throws with a football to improve his arm strength. Can Revere's Hail Mary drills make his arm less of a liability and more of a complement to his outstanding range? More details and a poll after the jump (ooohhh, mysterious and alluring, right?),
Revere and Ron Gardenhire both think this drill has helped to improve his arm strength, according to Bollinger, albeit to varying degrees. Revere is quoted as joking, "hopefully I'll have an Ichiro arm," where Gardy offers a more level-headed: "His throwing has been getting better. The ball is coming out of his hand."
We can discuss the finer points of Gardenhire's smack-your-self-in-the-forehead simplistic quotes at another date (e.g. "This guy's a baseball player," or "He's a guy who can catch the ball and throw it too," etc.). For now I'm a little more intrigued by the second portion of Bollinger's piece, which discusses Josh Willingham's transition from left field to right field.
Hammer's played just 264 innings of right field in his career, but as it stands right now, he'll likely be asked to quadruple or quintuple that this season as the Twins' primary right fielder. Gardy told Bollinger yesterday, however, that Spring Training will be a large component in determining whether or not Willingham can handle right field on an everyday basis, and even mentioned the possibility of switching him back to left field if he were to struggle tremendously there:
"I know Ben Revere can move over to the other side in a heartbeat," Gardenhire said. "Span could move over there. We have guys willing to do whatever it takes to win. That's what we are going to do. We're going to try to figure this out in Spring Training. We're going to start out this way and if it looks like it's working OK and he's getting used to that, he'll be out in right field. But if it looks like he's not comfortable in right field, I know the other guys can do it for a fact."
My initial reaction to that is: Yikes. Revere in right field sounds like a terrifying concept given his noodle arm, but perhaps we can also take that as a vote of confidence that this offseason really has improved his throwing arm. It's not as if Revere really needs to have a vintage Ichiro arm in order for his defense to be a positive. In 952 innings last year, his range alone made him worth 15.2 runs above average (if you're an Ultimate Zone Rating fan). Over that same time, his arm only cost the Twins 3.5 runs.
I'm willing to give Revere the benefit of the doubt and trust Gardenhire a little bit and assume that his throwing has improved. That's still not enough to make a transition to right field a good idea, though. Span isn't known for having a cannon, but it's safe to say that his arm is far less of a liability than Revere's has been. A shift to right field for either Revere or Span may lead baserunners to employ a "prove it" mentality and challenge the Twins by taking extra bases early on in the season. In that scenario, Span's the far more likely of the two to actually deliver on that challenge.
The best hope for the Twins is probably just that the current plan works out well enough, and Willingham, whose arm has been average or slightly above for most of his career, transitions well. If he truly ends up struggling to the point where Gardenhire and Co. feel that a change is in order, Span should be the one shifting over to right field. Denard's shown the capability to handle right field in the past, and Revere's superior range plays best in the vast expanses of center field anyway. His arm may be more costly there, but the runs saved from his range should once again trump the losses handily. And hey, who knows? Maybe the spirit of Culpepper will take over Revere's body and we'll see him "get his roll on" after gunning a few runners down at home plate this year (Warning: video link contains adult language and footage of Daunte Culpepper in a Raiders uniform, one of which may or may not be more offensive than the other).
Let's throw a poll out there and call it a day.
Steve Adams also writes for MLBTradeRumors.com, RotoAuthority.com, and MLB.com Fantasy Baseball. You can follow him on Twitter: @Adams_Steve
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I'm no personal trainer
But if there was a specific exercise or drill to improve his arm strength, why is he doing it now? Why didn’t he start doing this the day he was drafted?
by clutterheart on Feb 28, 2012 9:17 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Revere doesn't lack arm strength
Revere’s problem has nothing to do with arm strength. He throws a baseball about as hard as possible, if all you use is your arm. The fact they have him throwing a football shows they realize he needs to learn how to use his legs and body to generate power. Consider that Tim Lincecum is about the same size and weight as Ben Revere, yet Lincecum is able to deliver mid-90’s fastballs with a single step.
How is this possible? Gymnastics. If you imagine Lincecum’s pitching motion without the baseball, what does it remind you of? To me, it looks just like a guy raring back to throw a side-flip, except instead of launching himself upwards, he channels all that leg and body energy into a baseball. Turns out Lincecum was a pretty good gymnast as a kid. Most guys never learn to use their legs and body like a gymnast, so they don’t know how to generate that surge of power. Lincecum and his dad figured out how to combine a side flip with an arm whip to create one of the most efficient and repeatable throwing motions ever.
Ben Revere is just trying to use his legs a little more. I’m sure it will help, a little.
Um, no
Arm strength is a god-given gift. Ben Revere can train with the US gymnastics team and never throw the ball harder than he does now. He can sprint in from the wall to catch a pop-up behind second, and throw with all his momentum going towards home and still not make it there on the fly. Why? Arm strength, or lack thereof.
Lincecum has tremendous arm strength. That’s why he throws in the mid-90s. Some guys have so much arm strength, it literally rips their arm apart. That’s what happened to Zumaya.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Technique and practice will help anyone
But there is a limit. Maybe 5-10 MPH is all you can add, the rest is genetics.
Mechanics matter
Zumaya’s problems weren’t solely throwing too hard. He also didn’t throw completely correct. I don’t know enough about Lincecum to speak to the gymnastics thing, but plenty of velocity comes from the legs.
Huh?
Your argument is a fallacy. You are basing it on a unit that does not exist. God-Given gift!? You can’t use metaphors to analytically analyze something. There is so much biologically and physics wise that goes into “arm strength”, and you want to simplify it with god-given talent. If by god-given talent you mean genes, ok to some extent genes encode muscle mass and such, but the environment plays a role in gene expression as well. Bottom line is arm strength absolutely can be improved with improved mechanics and strength.
Have you ever thrown a baseball?
If you have, you would know that no amount of mechanical tinkering can make a 60 MPH fastball go 90 MPH. At best, you can get 5 extra MPH with mechanics. Ben Revere’s top speed is 70, and thatsafter getting behind the ball, running toward the base, catching and throwing in one motion. Joe Benson can stand in one place, lean back, and throw long toss at 80. When he really wants to hump it up there, he can use all his momentum and hit 90. That’s arm strength.
If everybody could throw hard, pitchers would all cost $50,000 a year. The fact is, it’s a rare gift. Ben Revere does not have the gift.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
What causes motion?
Force. Which is increased by mass and acceleration. Ben Revere will never be Ichiro or Kirby Puckett but simple physics indicates he can indeed improve his arm strength. I have thrown a ball probably more than most people, I fully understand how my arm strength developed, and how I improved it while growing up. A lot of variables go into arm strength. Like most things it is probably more affective to make improvements to arm strength during physical growth. I wonder how much Revere actually threw as a kid, and in what way. He was probably to busy running around.
Ben Revere blew out his shoulder in high school football
He simply lacks the strong rotator cuff muscles of stable labrum to throw hard. He has worked hard on arm strength his whole career. It hasn’t helped much. He has more chance to start hitting home runs than he does to develop a strong arm.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
No
And at this point, it’s too late.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
If you can't put a number on it, it doesn't exist.
Like morale or leadership.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"Tell Gardy there's nobody around to protect him now." Ozzie Guillen
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Feb 28, 2012 6:34 PM EST up reply actions
There you go
Be revere has a 30-inch sleeve. Randy Johnson has a 40-inch sleeve.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
"His throwing has been getting better. The ball is coming out of his hand."
Oh good, running the ball to home plate would get tiring, I'd think.
*Sigh * I miss Cuddy and Kubes already.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"Tell Gardy there's nobody around to protect him now." Ozzie Guillen
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Feb 28, 2012 9:28 AM EST reply actions
It'd be like watching the Sandlot everyday
JIM JAMS BUSINESS IS MASHING TATERS, AND BUSINESS IS GOOD!!!
by MashinTaters on Feb 28, 2012 6:19 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Watching Benny "The Rocket" Revere get chased
by the dog through town would be pretty amusing though.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"Tell Gardy there's nobody around to protect him now." Ozzie Guillen
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Feb 28, 2012 6:32 PM EST up reply actions
I'd like to believe his arm strength has markedly improved,
but this just sounds like more spring training talk to me. This-guy-looks-huge, this-guy-is-in-the-best-shape-of-his-life. When I read yesterday that he missed the cutoff man by throwing over his head from deep left field, yeah that’s kinda funny since you don’t expect it, but I don’t know if I see it as proof of an improved arm.
I know Revere’s range saves the Twins runs overall, but in those moments where a runner is thinking about tagging from second to third or third to home at a critical point in the game, I want my right fielder to give him reason for pause.
I will still imagine a pop-gun sound whenever I see him throw the ball.
[#2 North Central] Minnesota RollerGirls (1-0) vs [#6 East] Montreal Roller Derby (0-0) - Sat 3/3/2012 in the Roy Wilkins Auditorium, St. Paul MN. mnrollergirls.com
That's about as likely as him growing a third arm.
-A third arm that is really strong so he can gun runners out at home from the center field wall. Then, because his arm is so good, the Twins will move him to pitcher where he will assume the roll of staff ace, win three consecutive Cy Young Awards, and intimidate opposing batters with his award-winning smile.
Bert will call his 3-arm delivery “deceptive” and “herky-jerky.” Also, he will have the world’s best change-up when he throws instead with his crappy, pop-gun arm. Unfortunately, Ben’s carrer will end in disgrace after he tests positive for performance-enhancing “ninja turtle ooze.”
[#2 North Central] Minnesota RollerGirls (1-0) vs [#6 East] Montreal Roller Derby (0-0) - Sat 3/3/2012 in the Roy Wilkins Auditorium, St. Paul MN. mnrollergirls.com
There's a Zaphod Beeblebrox / improbability drive joke in there somewhere too, but I'm too tired to work it in.
[#2 North Central] Minnesota RollerGirls (1-0) vs [#6 East] Montreal Roller Derby (0-0) - Sat 3/3/2012 in the Roy Wilkins Auditorium, St. Paul MN. mnrollergirls.com
I'm not opposed to, at some point, going Revere-Span-Benson.
Willingham can DH. He’s played a little first in the majors, a bit more in the minors. If Justin needs to DH, maybe Willingham becomes the temporary first baseman if Benson also shows he’s ready.
I realize I’m seriously putting the cart before the horse with those sentiments.
I'd rather go Willingham - Span - Benson
And Revere’s the 4th OF
I agree, hopefully Benson is ready sooner than later
I completely agree with you DJL44
And I think TR sort of agrees with you too. I just have this sneaking suspicion either Span or Revere will be traded before the end of the 2012 season.
If Benson has a good spring
If Benson hammers a few balls over the fence this spring, then why not start him? He’s an excellent outfielder. He’s young, and he works cheap. Play the lad!
I would say Plouffe/Revere-Span-Willingham
I still see that platoon in left to minimize Revere’s horrible offense. As for throwing, “the ball is coming out of his hand” is hardly an endorsement of his throwing. It’s interesting that he thinks he can develop an Ichiro arm. He has about as much chance to develop a Barry Bonds home run swing.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Two things
a. “The ball is coming out of his hand” is Gardy-speak and I don’t think we can take anything away from it. Seeing improvements in games will tell.
You didn’t actually take the Ichiro comment serious?by twinscrazy_german on Feb 28, 2012 10:23 AM EST up reply actions
I'm content with "his throwing has been getting better".
Because that’s believeable to me. A guy can joke about his Ichiro-arm, and of course Gardy could just be giving the usual spring training confidence boosting quote, but at least it’s buyable.
I can buy a 5% increase in his throwing
That would take his arm from Rondell White to Shannon Stewart. I’d be OK with a Shannon Stewart arm, with his range. But, let’s face it, his arm is not going to keep him out of the line-up. What will keep him out of the line-up is a low OPS. Not many left fielders play everyday with an OPS+ of 73.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Juan Pierre played quite a bit with an OPS+ of 85
An BA/OBP heavy OPS+ of 85 with 40 steals at 80% success rate is valuable enough to hold down an everyday LF job.
I agree with you that a 75 OPS+ isn’t going to cut it but I also think Revere can improve off that baseline.
85 is the low end for an everyday outfielder, IMHO
I agree on giving Revere a chance. But I’m not as optimistic as you are in seeing improvement. He could just as easily have a sophomore slump, as pitchers all over the league exploit the holes in his swing.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
He can put the bat on the ball
You don’t hit .380 in the minors at any level without decent contact skills. It will come down to learning things he didn’t have to learn at those levels to be successful – bunting, drawing walks, laying off certain pitches. I think it is easier for a guy with good contact skills to learn when not to swing than it is for a guy who can’t hit the ball to learn how to make contact.
I see .290/.340/.350 in his future. I do like having Plouffe around to mash lefties.
That was at low A ball
The better the pitchers, the harder it has been for him to get his hits. His OBP in AAA was .338. In the majors it is .305. With no power, that isn’t going to get it done.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Remember Plouffe in the outfield last season?
That was tough to watch. Plouffe didn’t look like he really knew what he was doing. Took bad angles to balls, crappy throws, etc. But he does have a major league arm, and he’s decently fast. It may take him a year, but I think Plouffe can learn to play outfield.
Putting Willingham in LF makes sense
I think we’re focusing too much on arm and not enough on range. Span in right and Revere in center will catch a lot of those balls to the gap in right center. At least until Benson’s ready to come up and Willingham is our primary DH and we can shift back. (Unless Morneau’s the primary DH. In which case, we’re stuck with Willingham in the outfield).
Left requires more range in Target Field
Why not pur Span in left and Willingham in right?
[#2 North Central] Minnesota RollerGirls (1-0) vs [#6 East] Montreal Roller Derby (0-0) - Sat 3/3/2012 in the Roy Wilkins Auditorium, St. Paul MN. mnrollergirls.com
Because Revere is worse in center than Span
And a center fielder needs an arm that can make it to the cut-off man on the fly.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Always put your best defender in CF
Then sort out the rest
Especially if you're playing Ken Griffey Jr Presents Major League Baseball.
Doesn’t matter what position a guy SHOULD play. If his defensive rating was a 9 or a 10, he goes to the outfield. Those suckers had cannons!
Also..
SS and you could basically stop anything on the left side of the infield.
And if you had batters with speed of 9 or 10, bunts were good for infield singles about 80% of the time.
Free Rick. I mean, Chuck James!
No, I didn't spell Maurer wrong. But I do get asked if I'm related to Joe a lot.
by Maurer Power on Feb 28, 2012 12:57 PM EST up reply actions
Not true
If you look at UZR/150 for Revere and Span, Revere rates significantly better.
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it." - Ferris Bueller.
by Andrew Bryz-Gornia on Feb 28, 2012 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
Small samples
It’s why I don’t pay mush attention to UZR/150. It almost invariably favors the guy with fewer games played or chances. Ask any scout: Span is better. It’s why both Ryan and Antony stated as much emphatically.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
What about small samples?
Span is a much better baseball player overall. But the small sample card isn’t convincing for putting down Revere’s ability in CF. The guy can cover ground better than Span can. He can track balls in the gap that Span can’t. Naked eyes can see that, and it’s not a perceptual illusion. +15 for UZR/150 isn’t exactly fluky. Span has a better arm which helps, but Revere with 450 plate appearances will probably be the rangiest center fielder in the AL.
He's had a half a season out there
In a half season last year, Span had a UZR/150 of 17.4. Revere had a UZR/150 last year of 18.8. They are within less than one standard deviation from each other. So to say Revere has much better UZR/150 than Span is just a lie. Factor in the arm and it’s a no brainer.
Naked eye is deceiving. Revere gets poor jumps on the ball and uses his speed to close the gap. It looks impressive. But he’s no better than Span range wise, who gets better jumps on the ball.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Except
I was looking at career UZR/150 for both, not just last season. I know that Revere has had less chances than Span, but as TMW said, I feel that just looking at the two, it’s pretty clear that Revere has more range.
I will admit though that this opinion may be biased because Revere is unafraid to crash into walls, dive for balls, and take charge in the outfield, whereas Span is more timid.
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it." - Ferris Bueller.
by Andrew Bryz-Gornia on Feb 28, 2012 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
UZR/150 varies wildly
Look at any player and you will see huge fluctuations, a feature of the inexact nature of UZR. It still depends on eyeballs charting balls in play. And it has never adjusted for batted ball velocity in anything but a crude way (FOs/LDs). Most players put up a really great UZR/150 one year and a so so one the next. If that really great year is his only year, he looks like a great player. Then he regresses to the mean.
Span has played enough to where his career UZR (16.4) is a pretty accurate representation of his defensive ability. Revere’s could be a fluke. We won’t know until we see him play a full season, at least. Until then, scouting reports are more accurate than UZR. Also, until then, it’s foolish to think 88 games of good UZR/150 is enough to say that he’s “significantly better” than Span.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
And it has never adjusted for batted ball velocity in anything but a crude way (FOs/LDs).
It absolutely does: balls are classified as hard/medium/soft. Obviously there is subjectivity and a lot of room for error, but it does this.
by tobynotjason on Feb 28, 2012 2:10 PM EST up reply actions
That's what I meant by "crude"
I look for the day when the spotters have guns.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Ok.
It seemed like you were saying “it only differentiates between flies and line drives as a proxy for batted ball velo”.
by tobynotjason on Feb 29, 2012 2:00 AM EST up reply actions
Yes
Hard, medium and soft are three crud buckets with which to judge battes ball velo. They’re better than no velo categories, but there are so many borderline cases. One ball that is considered hard hit by a spotter might be a screaming line drive that the player has no chance to catch unless it’s hit right at him, another might be catchable if he makes a great play. If we had complete and accurate data about the speed, and trajectory—not just a simple categorization—UZR would be much more accurate and we wouldn’t see as much deviation in one players numbers from one year to the next.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
There is a nugget of truth here
Better categorization of the samples would reduce the need for such a large sample size. Of course you could say the same thing about batted balls, some pitches are easier to hit than others. In both cases it’s often easier to just gather a huge sample and assume that regresses the chances to the overall population.
Re:
Revere’s jumps will improve with experience. Span’s speed is not going to improve. It’s in its prime form. Revere was learning a lot last year and was nowhere near the defensive outfielder he will be. And yet he is already a marginally better fielder than Span.
He's always struggled with jumps
Last year was an improvement over scouting reports from previous years. It’s optimistic to expect improvement in his first full year at the majors.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Why is it optimistic?
Defense is significantly more coachable than hitting. It would be optimistic to expect him to start taking walks. That won’t happen. He is the hitter he is. But getting better and better at route taking and reading the ball off the bat? That’s realistic.
Not if he hasn't improved significantly in his five years of pro ball
If a guy has a history of improvement in one area and he’s still young, yeah, I project improvement. But if he’s never taken walks or gotten good jumps on the ball despite years of coaching, my confidence in his ability to improve lessens. In Revere;‘s case, I think he’s about at his peak ability. He can still gain some skills, but that’s on the margins. He’s so close to his upside, it’s optimistic to think he’ll improve significantly.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Jump can be "eyesight"
It’s really hard to see the flight of the ball immediately off the bat.
Yes
He could do like Span and get Lasik. That might help. It helped Span.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
It almost invariably favors the guy with fewer games played or chances.
I don’t think that’s true at all. Sometimes it favors that guy, sometimes it dramatically does not. Sure, you notice the crazy high UZR that sometimes comes with a few months of UZR. But you see crazy low numbers, too (or, often, unremarkable slightly-below-average-ish numbers for a guy who’s actually signficantly above average, which don’t stand out in one’s mind as much).
It’s just the nature of a SSS. 1/2 Season of UZR tells you about what maybe a month of hitting tells you. A guy can be “hot” or “cold”, likely due to balls on the edge of a zone’s “bucket” being relatively easy or relatively hard compared to the average ball in that bucket, thus helping or hurting his UZR. If you don’t have at least two seasons you’re on shakey ground drawing any conclusions.
And yes: to this point in their careers Span seems much better defensively, arm aside.
by tobynotjason on Feb 28, 2012 2:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Fair point
Sometimes it favors that guy, sometimes it dramatically does not.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Bigger left may not be more valuable
I recall reading about a study last year (I think) that showed that a rangy right fielder may be more valuable than a rangy left fielder, regardless of outfield size, because more weak fly balls are hit in the air to the opposite field, and because there are more righties than lefties, a fast RF is able to prevent more Texas League singles, enough that it’s more valuable than the extra base hits they may prevent by being in left.
For what it’s worth, I think everyone’s making way too big a deal of Revere’s arm strength – range is probably an order of magnitude more important than arm in the big-picture value of outfield defense.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
The point is about center vs left
In center, arm strength is way more important than it is in right. We saw that Revere does not have the arm strength to play center field when he let Travis Hafner score on a 200 ft. sac fly.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Sorry, meant left
Arm strength in right is probably more important than center. but they’re much closer. In left, you can get away with a Shannon Stewart arm.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
The hard part is finding exact numbers for batted balls by field.
But here are some numbers to think about (this isn’t cherry picked; it’s just a guy I have data on in hard copy because they were “nuggets” in James’ 2008 Gold Mine):
In 2008 Edwin Encarnacion was the most extreme pull hitter in MLB. He pulled almost 54% of balls to LF (vs. CF or RF). So how many fly balls did he hit to LF (his pull field)? 81. Of the 81, 22 went for home runs. (The vast majority of home runs in MLB are pulled [and uncatchable]). This leaves 59 fly balls to left. How many fly balls did he hit to RF? 60. All in play.
That’s THE most extreme pull hitter in baseball that year, hitting more fly balls to the opposite field.
James stated that hitters as a whole hit about 59% of ALL balls to the pull side of second (with many of those going to CF rather than the pull field). But only about 48% of FLY balls go to the pull side of 2B. And of that 48%, all the home runs are inherently uncatchable. So clearly there are more balls in the park that hang in the air hit to the opposite field than the pull field.
Line drives are a different story, but without good fliner v. liner data it’s tough to say how many are remotely catchable by even an elite outfielder. The biggest thing that stuck with me was simply that his arm can’t hurt him nearly as much as people think it can, especially relative to how much elite range can help him. In a place like Fenway, for example, I’d definitely rather see Revere put in right, which is huge, than left, which is tiny.
by tobynotjason on Feb 29, 2012 2:33 AM EST up reply actions
Exactly
It would be interesting to see spray chart data for Target Field (especially including balls off the wall), to see if the short, high porch in right negates that somewhat – a good arm is more important than good range on a ball hit off whatever-we-call-that-wall-that’s-where-the-Baggie-was, but I don’t know that those are as common as we think they are. We think of Cuddy cutting down lots of guys trying for doubles off the Baggie, but I think we remember those because they were exciting and made highlight reels, not because they were actually that common – he probably gave up many more Texas Leaguers that Revere would’ve caught.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
Nobody remembers Texas Leaguers if they don't come at a big moment.
You almost never hear fans complaining about a guy because “he never gets to the bloopers in front of him”. They’re just taken as “one of those things” that people “luck into”, despite the fact that elite speed obviously takes some of those away.
Guys end up on first or second base all the time on Hawk Harrelson “ducksnorts” (ONLY A FEW MORE DAYS AND WHITE SOX BASEBALL IS… ON THE AIR! Somehow I can’t wait to hear Harrelson… at least for the first ten minutes or so) that fall near the foul line between the RF, first baseman and second baseman. Revere gets to most if not all of those, because raw foot speed is so much more important than first step there.
In addition, Revere would add a bunch of extra outs on all the FOUL bloopers off RHB that most right fielders can’t get to. I actually hadn’t even thought of fouls, specifically, before, but that’s a huge potential advantage for his specific skill set (again, because it’s an issue of raw speed not first step), and the “chances” are doubled down the right field line (vs. LF).
by tobynotjason on Feb 29, 2012 1:54 PM EST up reply actions
There is very little RF foul territory @ Target Field
The warning track is in fair territory
Not referring to near the pole at all.
It seems like very few parks have much down there anymore due to the configurations of facing-the-mound seating.
I’m referring to the ones that drop only halfway down the foul line, near the stands. No one thinks twice about foul bloops without a ton of loft that the average RF is still 20 feet from when they land, but Revere could turn some of them into outs.
1B can get those if they're popups
It’s hard for anyone to catch those ducksnorts unless they’re shaded toward the line
Arm strength is...
pretty much a god given ability. The overall “cannon-ness” of a guys arm is never going to drastically improve at this stage.
Interesting
With 169 votes at this moment:
83 want Revere in CF
81 want Span in CF
Revere LF 80% - Plouffe LF 20+ %
Span CF 97%
Willlingham RF 97% (probably optimistic)
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-league-stew/photo-logan-morrison-bryan-petersen-share-tub-drink-043548597.html
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Feb 28, 2012 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
I want Benson up at the break
And Revere as the 4th OF or traded. It would be awesome if Revere starts the season hitting .330.
yeah Benson could no doubt earn his way up there. But I'm going to only put expectations on August/ September.
Unlike Parmelee, I’m largely tempering my enthusiasm on Benson, even though he should be a more productive big leaguer long term.
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-league-stew/photo-logan-morrison-bryan-petersen-share-tub-drink-043548597.html
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Feb 28, 2012 5:13 PM EST up reply actions
That's like Parmelee for whatever
People cling to their most recent memory. Their most recent memory is of Chris Parmalee ripping it up and Ben revere winning an award for a great catch.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Of course it is
I was just mentioning it. It’s an internet poll, indicative of nothing.
Now Span is back in the lead by 10 votes.
Last season before he got hurt
Span was playing the best center of his career and that was with a black hole in left and no range in right. If Willingham can play right, which I don’t really see how it can be that hard of a switch just have to play the slices the opposite way and occasionally take one off the wall, then having Revere and his insane range and noodle arm in left would allow Span to shade right pretty heavily cutting the space Willingham has to cover and keeping the best arm in right. Also if Plouffe gets some time in left maybe even platooning vs lefties then while he is not gonna be great with the glove but he should have decent range and a pretty good arm.
first-worst-first?
The ball is coming out of his hand
Kind of important when throwing a ball…
Things could be worse. Suppose your errors were counted and published every day, like those of a baseball player.
Hey you guys, I am an Angels fan and want to find out if you think both Revere and Span will be everyday starters in the OF ?
Obviously this is for Fantasy Baseball purposes. The little I have read seems to give the indication that Span could regain his leadoff spot in the batting order. That is really what I want to know….
Do well-informed Twins fans think that Span will start in the OF and bat leadoff? Even if he hit 2nd every day I’d think he’d have a good shot of scoring 90 runs with a decent BA which is what I am after…
Yes, with an asterisk
Span’s definitely the starting center fielder and leadoff man… unless his concussion symptoms resurface. His health is a question mark, but there’s basically zero chance he loses that role except due to injury.
Revere’s tentatively the starting left fielder and #8 hitter. Gardy loves him, and his glove is legitimately excellent despite a poor arm, so the spot is probably reasonably safe to start the year. He could get pushed out if he hits poorly and Trevor Plouffe hits very well. If Span gets injured, Revere almost certainly gets put in Span’s place, both in the field and the batting order (he’s a bad fit at leadoff because of his poor OBP, but Gardy likes him there because he’s fast).
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein

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