Twins, Alexi Casilla Head to Arbitration
It doesn't happen often, but every few years the Twins can't work through an arbitration case with a player and they go through the arbitration process. The last player that wasn't able to find a midway point was Kyle Lohse back in both 2005 and 2006, which wasn't a surprise at the time.
Casilla made $865,000, and after hitting .260/.322/.368 with a pair of homers, 21 RBI and 15 stolen bases in 97 games last season has submitted $1.75 million for his 2012 salary. The Twins offered $1.065 million. For an objective look into these numbers, in an effort to see which side is most likely to come out of the arbitration hearing as a winner, let's look at a comp list that we'll swipe from MLBTR's post earlier today.
Join us for the breakdown after the jump.
| Player |
Year |
Prev Year |
Next Year |
% Increase |
| Aaron Miles |
2007 |
$1.0 M |
$1.4 M |
40% |
| Alfredo Amezaga |
2008 |
$945 K |
$1.3 M |
38% |
| Jeff Baker |
2010 |
$975 K |
$1.75 M |
79% |
| Alexi Casilla |
2011 |
$865 K |
?? |
?? |
None of these infielders had particularly successful campaigns in their previous season, but of course received raisese regardless. Miles, in his age-30 season, hit .290 with a pair of homers in 133 games. Amezaga hit .264 with three homers in 125 games, in his age-29 season. Baker (also 29) hit .272 with four homers in 79 games. Casilla, Miles, and Amezaga all had an OPS under .700, while Baker managed .739.
Casilla's potential raises
Casilla Wins: $1.75 million, 102% raise
Twins Win: $1.065 million, 23% raise
Midway: $1.407 million, 63% raise
It's hard to believe that either the Twins or Casilla would go to arbitration over $700,000, but that's exactly what's happening. Considering that the midway point would have constituted a 63% raise, that's already more than a fair increase based on Casilla's history. Either the Twins took a hard line ofer that $350,000, or Casilla's side did.
There's no doubt that Minnesota's numbers come in a little low. A 23% raise, even considering Casilla's mediocre performance (he hit worse than the average second baseman in both the American and National Leagues), is below what players expect. But that's how the game is played.
Conversely, players are expected to submit numbers slightly higher than they'd expect. This is where the issue is, because Casilla's agent is looking for his salary to double in spite of the fact that he's done nothing remotely close to earning that kind of compensation.
Going back to Baker, who received a raise much larger than Miles or Amezaga, his raise was huge in some part because arbitration doesn't just look at the prior season - it also looks at the season before that. Which means that his 79% increase was due in some part to hitting .305/.362/.448 with the Cubs in '09.
Casilla, in spite of having a slightly better '10 (.276/.331/.395 in just 69 games), can't boast that his numbers justify his raise.
There's a disconnect between what Casilla's agent believes Alexi is worth, and what he is actually worth. If Casilla's camp had come in a bit closer to reality (asking for a 60% raise would have given Casilla approximately a $1.4 million salary), then I have no doubt that the two sides would have come to an agreement already. Instead, a process which isn't supposed to be personal will be. When two opposing sides are talking about a player's value, it's impossible for it to not be at least a little personal. It's opening a door that can't be closed, and who knows what will come out the other side.
The Twins offer is low. But they should win this hearing, as much as arbitration cases can be won - in terms of money - because Casilla's camp came in so ridiculously high. It's not the dollars in this case; $700,000 isn't a massive gap, and the $350,000 difference to the midway point is almost negligible to a team's payroll. The difference is in the percentages, and calling this judgement just seems too easy.
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So he's probably losing money by not agreeing to a deal
Does his agent get to speak or just the player?
I think it is both
They will bring up the fact that the Twins had injury problems last season. In the Worst Case scenario, Casilla should get a raise, but not what he was expecting.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
I would like to see Dallas vs the Giants on Thanksgiving, Make it happen NFL!
I'm sure it's the agent and then team reps.
But the GM is there, and the player, too. That’s what makes it awkward, especially when the team has to start explaining why they don’t think they player is worth as much as the player might like.
I think the arbritor sets the amount.
The panel has to hear both sides and then they make a decision on what kind of raise the player could get. In Casilla’s case, I believe that they likely side with the Twins while giving Casilla just a bit more than the Twins were planning. In other words, I may give $1.2 million if I were the judge. This is based on the Twins injury history in 2011.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
I would like to see Dallas vs the Giants on Thanksgiving, Make it happen NFL!
No need to qualify
Just state the facts: what he said is false. Period.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Feb 8, 2012 11:35 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think baseball is actually an amalgamation of every great musical.
Pitchers come from “West Side Story”. Catchers and left fielders from “Cats”.
"Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.'"
lmao
:)
I don't know, but I've been told it's hard to run with the weight of gold,
'the other hand, I've heard it said, it's just as hard with the weight of lead.
by montanatwinsfan on Feb 9, 2012 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
Grizadelmon?
Midnight,
Not a sound from the dugout,
Has the skip lost his memory?
Leyland’s smiling alone.
Out in left field,
The batted balls all roll past my feet
And the fans begin to groan
by ColossusOfRhode on Feb 9, 2012 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
Can I imagine him in spandex and tiger face paint repleat with whiskers?
I don't know, but I've been told it's hard to run with the weight of gold,
'the other hand, I've heard it said, it's just as hard with the weight of lead.
by montanatwinsfan on Feb 9, 2012 2:52 PM EST up reply actions
I voted for Casilla...
Lexi had an 1.4 WAR last season, that translates to $6.1M value if you accept the Fangraphs equation. If the Twins are willing to give Perkins that much money, they should be able to give Casilla an $1.4-1.5M and settle. Keep in mind the contracts they gave Blackburn and Capps and it becomes a no-brainer.
I don't follow you
They gave bad contracts to other guys so they have to veer pay Alexi too?
Yeah.
He’s also forgetting Casilla’s history. Both Blackburn and Capps had past seasons of success to lean on.
If he is including WAR, then Casilla should get what he is asking.
After all, he had to battle through injuries, including his own and his teammates. Also, he had to play games with the second half of the worst combo in the majors and that was Nishi. One good example was Opening day where we had a bad first inning due to Nishi’s problems with fielding.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
I would like to see Dallas vs the Giants on Thanksgiving, Make it happen NFL!
Yeah, they could give him that much and settle.
But how do we know it wasn’t Casilla’s side that kept that from happening? They’re the ones who came out and asked for a ridiculous raise.
Look at what they gave to Perkins...
$1.55M (and calculate the raise ) Perkins’ 2011 was 1.7 WAR (vs 1.4 for Casilla) but in the past he was horrid. Do the comparison and do the math. Hint: Perkins’ made $700K in 2011 (so that is a 121.4 raise, the equivalent of giving Casilla $1.88 M which is less that what he asked.)
Using WAR is a poor way to evaluate a reliever's value.
Comparing raises of pitchers to position players isn’t apples to apples, either.
And the reason that Perk went from $700K in 2011 to $1.55 M this year, is because Perk was actually a very, very good relief pitcher.
Casilla just hasn’t been good, ever.
Like one person said above
Casilla is looking at a discount based on WAR according to Fangraphs. With $1.75 million, you would figure the Twins are cheapskates not to accept what he is asking. Maybe we ought to have congressional investigations into this matter to see if baseball can handle a salary floor at about $120-130 million as long as players accept a hard cap at $190 million. I might have voted too early on this one.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
I would like to see Dallas vs the Giants on Thanksgiving, Make it happen NFL!
WAR gives you an idea of fair value in the free agent market, not 2nd year arbitration year.
While Casilla has quietly been better than commonly perceived (I include myself in that) – his production rates at the plate have been shockingly close to league average over the past few seasons thanks to walking a little bit and smacking doubles at a healthy clip – he doesn’t do the things most arbitrators value and he’s been a part time player, period.
Per the typical 40/60/80 arb year formula and pure-WAR value he might be argued to be “worth” $3 million or so in 2012, but the problem with using those formulas is they ignore the volatile value of marginal wins at the low end of the win-spectrum. That is, not all “1 win” players are valued by the market at around their “WAR rate”, whereas 2+ win players tend to coalesce around a tighter distribution in line with 4.5 million/season on the free market.
As for congressional investigations, I’d like to see a sub-committee hold hearings on persistent, uninvited, repellent insanity on otherwise decent internet message boards.
It's all relative
Other than the Marlins, Rangers, and Angels, free agency has been a dud for some players. Prince Fielder can thank his lucky stars that another player got injured for him to get the contract he wanted, somewhat.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
I would like to see Dallas vs the Giants on Thanksgiving, Make it happen NFL!
Don't even try Jesse
Just walk away and let it go. Don’t make madness contagious.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Feb 10, 2012 11:30 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You really think
Perk and Alexi are comparable? Right now, Perk looks like a guy who will be a long term solution at step up and a possible future closer.
Alexi looks like a guy who may not survive the season on the big league roster.
But here's the rub
Glen Perkins pitched three great games in 2009, as a starter, before being shut down due to injury, when he came back in 2010, he was seen as a dud and this image made it into our gamethreads:

Casilla fared a bit better despite his injuries and injuries to the team. Also, he had to deal with Nishi’s errors once in a while while he played short.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
I would like to see Dallas vs the Giants on Thanksgiving, Make it happen NFL!
So you're saying Casilla deserves to double his salary...
…because somebody else was once terrible and then good?
And as far as compensation in arbitration, a player having to deal with another player’s defensive miscues will have next to zero effect on the numbers and the decision of the panel.
Look
All I am doing is giving Alexi Casilla’s side of the story. In his case, I am just comparing him to Glen Perkins. But the gist of this is that Casilla was a somewhat more productive. In fact, he could argue that the Twins won a division title in 2009 because of him.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
I would like to see Dallas vs the Giants on Thanksgiving, Make it happen NFL!
And I know their names
Less Cowbell
Montanatwinsfan, and
Randball Stu
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
I would like to see Dallas vs the Giants on Thanksgiving, Make it happen NFL!
I was trying to vote for Al Gore
It’s laid out in a very confusing manner.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"Tell Gardy there's nobody around to protect him now." Ozzie Guillen
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Feb 8, 2012 11:20 PM EST up reply actions
Did you leave Chad Allen hanging?
(For a joke that was last topical a decade ago, I think it’s fitting to reference a player from a decade ago.)
by ColossusOfRhode on Feb 8, 2012 11:28 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think it was just a meniscus tear
Which is not a big deal for a left fielder. But he got exposed as a major leaguer, similar to Lew Ford.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Point is, they both had one good year
Then the pitchers exploited the holes in their swing.
It’s why I fear for Revere, imho. He has huge holes in his swing. But unlike Ford and Allen, he doesn’t hit the ball especially hard when he does make contact.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Fudge, accidentally voted Casilla
I just can’t see his salary doubling, especially after missing the last 2 months. Just meet in the middle already.
Is anyone else having trouble logging in with Google Chrome?
I can log in to SB Baseball but not any of the individual sites like TT.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"Tell Gardy there's nobody around to protect him now." Ozzie Guillen
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Feb 8, 2012 11:17 PM EST reply actions
If it persists,
send an email to support at sbnation dot com, and be sure to let them know what browser you’re using.
Me neither, just tonight.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"Tell Gardy there's nobody around to protect him now." Ozzie Guillen
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Feb 8, 2012 11:21 PM EST up reply actions
It seems to be working OK now.
?
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"Tell Gardy there's nobody around to protect him now." Ozzie Guillen
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Feb 9, 2012 10:19 AM EST up reply actions
I had trouble this morning
but it’s fine again tonight.
"...and we'll see ya tomorrow night!" - Jack Buck, Game 6, 1991 World Series
by WindyCityTwinsFan on Feb 8, 2012 11:32 PM EST up reply actions
I'm going to add this to my bucket list too.
Mont. man starts police chase as part of wishlist
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"Tell Gardy there's nobody around to protect him now." Ozzie Guillen
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Feb 8, 2012 11:44 PM EST reply actions
Free Rob Johnson!!!!!!!
I don't know, but I've been told it's hard to run with the weight of gold,
'the other hand, I've heard it said, it's just as hard with the weight of lead.
by montanatwinsfan on Feb 9, 2012 2:28 PM EST up reply actions
the wuestion
were the sheep with him?
"live EVERY week like it's shark week" Tracy Jordan(30 Rock)
by carlpavanosmoustache on Feb 9, 2012 12:38 AM EST up reply actions
effin edit button!!!!!!
question…. were the sheep with him?
"live EVERY week like it's shark week" Tracy Jordan(30 Rock)
by carlpavanosmoustache on Feb 9, 2012 12:39 AM EST up reply actions
They were Baa, Baaing all the way to Sheepblo
Seriously, somebody stupid enough to get caught in a police chase deserves to lose their license.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
I would like to see Dallas vs the Giants on Thanksgiving, Make it happen NFL!
Sheep are notoriously bad drivers
This one is making an illegal ewe turn.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"Tell Gardy there's nobody around to protect him now." Ozzie Guillen
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Feb 9, 2012 10:18 AM EST up reply actions
Well
He was going the wrong way in the first place.
Like that scene in Planes, Trains, and Automobiles where Steve Martin and John Candy’s characters were going the wrong way on the Interstate and ended up passing between two semi trucks.
It is a nice movie where Martin attempts to get home in time for Thanksgiving with his wife and kids.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
I would like to see Dallas vs the Giants on Thanksgiving, Make it happen NFL!
The fact that I just watched this three days ago...
suddenly makes me want to shoot myself in the face.
by tobynotjason on Feb 10, 2012 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
Casilla asked for too much
Which is fine if you are willing to settle, but is going to cost him. The middle sounds a bout right.
Here's our best offer
We continue to pay you as a professional baseball player and you continue to try to play like a professional baseball player.
No that’s a pretty good deal Alexi…
I voted for Casilla
just to see if my head would explode.
Well, you are still here.
So I guess you didn’t explode.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
I would like to see Dallas vs the Giants on Thanksgiving, Make it happen NFL!
Not that it matters...
but I’d be pretty stoked about a 26% raise. I’d even play a mediocre 2B if you want me to. :)
If Jed Lowrie is agreeing to 1.1mil
then I think Alexi is asking for too much.
by NYCisTwinsTerritory on Feb 9, 2012 10:34 AM EST reply actions
This is all relative
It’s not the dollars in this case; $700,000 isn’t a massive gap, and the $350,000 difference to the midway point is almost negligible to a team’s payroll.
$700k, or even $350k, isn’t that big a gap from the Twins’ perspective, but it’s a tremendous difference from Casilla’s point of view – you’re talking about almost half his salary. He’s nothing like a sure bet to get a big deal when he’s eligible for free agency – one more poor year, and he’s looking at a series of sub-$1M one-year deals to be a utility man for as long as he’s able to hang on in the bigs (like Nick Punto’s now getting), and a major injury leaves with nothing going forward. Yeah, that’s still a lot of money, but it’s still pretty daunting to be potentially lose his entire earning power before 30, especially if he has any family to support. Even if it’s just his immediate family, $350k is a few extra years’ living expenses.
Despite my sympathy for his cause, I think his figure is more high than the Twins’ is low, so I don’t see him winning this case.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
That's something I thought about and then didn't mention.
The more he makes this year, the more he makes in his next year of arbitration. It’s a knock-on effect. And you’re right, that would carry over into free agency as well. A guy making $2 million in his last year of arbitration is likely to get lower offers on the FA market than a guy who made $3.5 million.
Good point.
Casilla is starting from a lower base than his comparables also
It isn’t just $700k – it’s what that means for next year also. The first arb awards are the ones with the most on the line. A 40% raise is only $1.2M which is well below the midpoint. Casilla should have filed for $1.5M if he wanted to win arbitration. My guess is they filed high to drive up the value of the midpoint expecting the Twins to settle there.
This exactly.
It reads like backfired gamesmanship: the expectation of a counter-offer that never materialized.
by tobynotjason on Feb 10, 2012 3:44 PM EST up reply actions

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