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Looking Into: Tony Batista

Now that I've had a week to think this over, let's see if a little distance has brought about any conclusions.

What?  Tony Batista??  We should have [done one thing] instead of [doing what we did]!!!  -98% of Minnesota

For me, and for the other 98% of Minnesota, it's time to move on with the fact that Batista is a Twin.  Frankly, I'm not disturbed by the idea, in fact I'm cautiously optimistic.  I was just looking for something more.  By something more, I mean Hank Blalock; I wanted Blalock manning third base.

But I realized a few things since the Batista signing.  Number one, what we paid for Batista versus what we could have paid for Blalock is much easier to swallow should he underperform.  $1.25 million for Batista versus a couple of high-end pitching prospects for Blalock...if they both were to bust, which would you rather have given up?  Next, I realized that not only is Batista only 32 years old, but before his one-year stint in Japan he put 32 over the fence.  Finally, I realized that Batista was offered $7+ million to play across the Pacific...which was significantly more than what he would have been offered by any other major league club.  That is why he played in Japan.

It's possible to put a positive spin on anything.  That's what I'm doing.  Without going overboard, the signing of Tony Batista does have some upside.  He could hit 30.  He could drive in 110.  The pitching prospects we didn't deal are still in our pocket, should Ryan decide (and he should) that he needs to make another move.

Most of the time, MLB players who move to Japan go there to die.  But moves from Japan to the MLB are not unprecedented.  The Detroit Tigers lifted Cecil Fielder from Japan.  Alfonso Soriano has had a nice career in America since being released by a Japanese team.  Gabe Kapler is back.  None of these players have situations identical to Batista, but the point is that not everyone who plays in Japan is used up.  Whining that he played in Japan for one whole season isn't valid.

What is valid is the miserable career OBP.  Maybe it should be a prerequisite for a team like Minnesota, but Batista wasn't signed for his miserable career OBP, he was signed for the threat of power.  Chances for a team like Minnesota to sign or trade for a power hitter who also gets on base at a high rate (see: Pujols, Bonds, Griffey, Alex Rodriguez) are slim to none.  And you know how the saying goes...Slim just left the building.

Signing Batista is not the worst thing the Twins could have done.  It's not the best, either.  I would have preferred something different.  But after thinking about it for a few days I'm not nearly as down on it as I was when I saw the news.

2B Luis Castillo
C   Joe Mauer
LF  Shannon Stewart
1B Justin Morneau
3B Tony Batista
CF Torii Hunter
DH Lew Ford
RF Michael Cuddyer
SS Jason Bartlett

Dropping Hunter to the sixth spot in the lineup is better suited to his offensive ability.  To have a six-hitter that can bat .275 with 25 homers and be able to drive in 90 is a luxury Twins fans aren't used to.  Things could get worse than the lineup you see above, and there's no doubt in my mind that it's a better lineup than what we had staring us in the face at the end of October.

Should Terry Ryan make a move on a legitimate DH, and I sincerely hope he does, then maybe the DH hits five and Batista can slide to seven where that hideous OBP wouldn't be as glaring of a deficiency.

Every offseason questions get answered in ways no one wanted them to be answered.  Tony Batista isn't Luis Castillo, but he isn't somebody named Boone, either.  In the end, if Batista doesn't work out, we're still not worse at third than we were in 2005.  If he does, that 30-homer threat has been a long time coming for Twin fans.

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Very nice
A very nice point/counterpoint on this topic Lundie. His smaller salary definately makes the deal much more "do-able" to me as well.

Also, thank you for placing Mauer in the 2-hole in your magic batting order. Joey would be the best number 2 hitter in baseball, if Gardy had the balls to put him there.

by mbennett on Dec 21, 2005 3:55 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

My thoughts exactly
Except I'm more hopeful about Kubel, and I think Stewie will convince Gardy to hit lead-off despite the fact that he's not a lead-off hitter anymore. As optimism bubbles over, here is my lineup:
  1. Stewie
  2. Luis
  3. Joe
  4. Melvin
  5. Justin
  6. Torii
  7. Kubel
  8. T-Bat
  9. Bartlett
Joe Mauer for MVP.

by cmathewson on Dec 21, 2005 4:15 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Its not the money
Its the wasted plate appearances that kill me.  They Twins only have so many opportunities to get better offensively; wasting PAs on Tony Batista is just a waste of those opportunities.  

Also, the "he wasn't signed for his OBP, he was signed for his power" is not a good argument. The fact remains they have to live with that horrendous OBP; just because they didn't sign him for it doesn't mean that they don't suffer for it.

Quiz for the group: can you find a worse 30 homer 100 RBI season in MLB history than Tony Batista's 2004?  (Hint: there actually is one.  But I think only one).

by Eric in Madison on Dec 21, 2005 7:28 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Tony Armas Sr., 1983
But really, as terrible as it looks, it's not materially worse than Batista's 2004.

But anyway, ditto to everything you said; the thing about this piece is that it treats it as a low-risk, high-reward sort of signing, when in fact it's not even a low-risk, LOW-reward sort of signing. There is no realistic chance of the Twins getting ANYTHING useful from Tony Batista. Here's hoping he goes oh-for-March and they cut their losses fast.

That said, they've got their legit DH now (if he's healthy). Save us, Rondell White. You're our only hope...

by mandamin on Dec 22, 2005 2:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Risk/Reward
I'm not treating it as a low-risk, high-reward deal.  Simply, it's not as bad as everyone has been whining about.  Frankly, the post is more about taking it in moderation than tying a cement block to your feet and jumping into the Hudson River.

Your comment of "...no realistic chance of the Twins getting ANYTHING useful..." is exactly why I wrote this.  Everyone is jumping to conclusions.  If Batista hits below the Boone line, then let him fly.  But until then, absolutes and doomsy-day proclaimations are a bit over the top.

But, when you're right you're right...we still have to suffer Batista's miserable OBP.  Let's hope he doesn't have to bat higher than 7th.

by Jesse on Dec 22, 2005 2:54 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I appreciate what you're trying to do
I appreciate your trying to calm everyone down, but you'd have to offer some evidence that it might not be that bad in order to be successful. And it's certainly not your fault that you didn't; there simply isn't any, because it really, truly IS that bad. Sure, he might hit 30 and drive in 110; but all that means is that he's coming up far too often (and, with that many RBI, in far too many high-leverage situations) and making WAY too many outs, because that's what Tony Batista does. HR and RBI totals aside (or, rather, considered along with everything else), he's a terrible player that has no business on a big-league team. It's just a fact.

Batista's numbers his last two seasons in the bigs are, by my calculations, a .271 OBP and a .423 SLG (which, while not as horrible as the OBP, isn't "power" in any meaningful sense). Cuddyer, Kubel, and Ford will all put up much better numbers than that this season (if the sample size is large enough); Batista himself may better them VERY slightly, but he's also two years older and a year and a half removed from MLB-quality pitching (which he could never hit before anyway).

Thus, if Batista is an everyday player, he will hurt the team. If he is not but stays on the team, his salary will hurt them, as will any ABs he does get (any pinch-hitting opportunities will be against lefties, because that's how Gardy is, and Batista is even worse against lefties). He is, at best, an average defender, of which the Twins already had plenty. Thus, there is no realistic chance of the Twins getting anything useful out of the Batista signing. That's not jumping to conclusions, it's drawing a well-reasoned conclusion from the preponderance of the evidence. Avoiding that conclusion (even if all you're saying is "maybe it won't be so bad") is merely a form of blind optimism.

by mandamin on Dec 22, 2005 3:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yep, Tony Armas
It's pretty bad, that 1983, but Batista's 2004 was bad too.  

One of things that really does make the Armas year materially worse is that he managed to ground into a league leading 31 double plays, whereas Batista grounded into 14 in 2004.  

by Eric in Madison on Dec 22, 2005 3:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Right
on.  Good points.

See??  Now this is what I'm talking about!  An articulately stated argument to back up your thoughts.  Well done.

by Jesse on Dec 22, 2005 3:29 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

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