Twinkie Town: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:





Tori Hunter should be traded now !!!!!!

Tori Hunter wants to go, let's trade him now Terry Ryan. Lets GET SERIOUS PEOPLE!!!! Would you want someone who is consistent and maybe someday want to be a Hall of Fame player, when he retires. Tori does not care about that he only want's the Money. He does not play intense at all, only when he want's the limelight for stealing a homerun from somebody big.

0 recs | Comment 30 comments

Story-email Email | Print |

Comments

Display:

Try harder next time...
If you don't think Torii Hunter is an intense competitor, you aren't watching the same Torii Hunter that I'm watching.  Also, you have failed to address a key problem with your position--if Torii Hunter is so obviously bad, why would we be able to trade him for something that's really good?  

Of course, based on your extremely short post, atrocious grammar, excessive use of capitalization, and your mispelling of Hunter's first name, I have no reason to believe you spent much time considering your position in the first place.

by ubelmann on Jan 2, 2006 1:20 PM EST   0 recs

I'm not really sure what side the originator is on
But I do agree somewhat with his statements about Hunter trying moreso to make the spectacular catch than getting under the ball and catching like my neighbor kid would (if he could run as fast, get as good a jump, and see the ball period!).  It's driven me nuts for years now, but I have no other problem with Torii's defensive play.  And, if you watch the replay, you'll see it's why he got hurt in Boston.

As for trading him, now's the time, Boston's the team, Marte's the man.  That is, if I could call the shots for both teams (staying a Twins fan!).

Sometime your low self-esteem is just good common sense.

by statman on Jan 3, 2006 4:34 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

No way
I totally disagree that Torii intentionally dives for balls that he could otherwise simply "get under and catch."  Do you have any idea how much it hurts to go sliding across that turf (particularly when the AstroTurf was in place, he would get such horrible rug-burn)?  Do you have any idea how risky it is to go flying full speed into that wall with the potential of not hitting one of the padded spots?  He dives for balls when it is necessary, not to be flashy.

by Nick Nelson on Jan 3, 2006 3:14 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Not diving so much as...
"Leaping."  Again, watch the Boston replay or the one at Shea where he gave the Mets a HR.  I realize it's easy to say from the couch, but I also didn't see the same thing happening before he became a "star."

As for the diving part, watch sometime when he comes in for a catch, makes it, then afterwards does something acrobatic.

He's playing to Sportscenter, and I believe it's cost the Twins a few times, especially in Boston.  I take nothing away from him in terms of his going all-out.  He does give it his all.

Sometime your low self-esteem is just good common sense.

by statman on Jan 3, 2006 5:16 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Full speed
I think you underestimate how dificult it is to play center field in the majors at full speed every game. A lot of times, when he does something that seems unnecessary (acrobatic), he's trying to roll into position to make a throw. Somtimes he doesn't need to jump as high as he does, but he jumps that high so that he can land with more momemntum behind the throw. When you've got your back to the wall, you have no room to go deeper than you need and get your momentum going toward home. So he uses the vertical plane to get more on his throws.

Other times when he rolls, he's trying to keep from sliding too much on artificial turf, especially on his exposed arms. You can't argue with his leaping, especially not in that freaky geometry of Fenway, running full steam 70 yards for a ball into the triangle.

He is unique in the way he plays center, mostly because he goes all out and has to find some way to stop his momentum and get the ball back in. That is one trait that makes him the best at what he does.

Another is the fact that he has the best first step of anybody I've ever seen. Anyone at Bloggers Night who saw that catch will know what I mean. Perhaps Kirby could lope back and get that one, but Kirby played 40 feet deeper than Hunter does, which allows Hunter to get to an average of one shallow liner per game that Puckett wouldn't even bother to chase. And nobody would have ranged so far into the gap at the All-Star game, leaped 12 feet in into he air (including his glove) at full speed and brought down that rocket off the bat of Barry Bonds. It makes "The Catch" seem like child's play.

The third trait is his arm. I don't know any other center fielder who dives forward to get everything possible on a throw and can get a fast guy tagging up from third from medium deep center field. I've seen Hunter do it a dozen times at least.

I've watched a lot of baseball and I've never seen anybody better defensively, including Ken Griffey Jr. in his prime. That is why I'm so passionate about keeping him, unless Ryan is blown away with an offer he can't refuse.

Joe Mauer for MVP.

by cmathewson on Jan 3, 2006 5:46 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Who is better than Torii?
There have been lots of center fielders who are very good.  One that I believe was of the same ability was Willie Mays.  His style was different, but some of his catches were unbelievable.  Playing in that ridiculous center field at the old Polo Grounds gave him more room than perhaps any other center fielder.  But Mays was one that you would have to put in the same class as Torii, although a different time.

by roger on Jan 3, 2006 5:52 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

I agree
I would not mention the great Mays because he was the best ever in my book. And certainly Torii will never do what he did offensively. But I've seen replays of Mays' catch many times and I have to say Torii could have gotten that one. I never saw Mays play thugh, so I can say that Torii si the best I've ever seen.
Joe Mauer for MVP.

by cmathewson on Jan 3, 2006 5:55 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

I did!
But when you are a 12-15 year old kid you don't really appreciate what someone like Mays could do.  Plus, he was playing for the opposition.  

by roger on Jan 3, 2006 6:28 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Ug
Example A:

I loath it when people say, "Oh well, you are too young to have seen them play, so your opinion doesn't count."

Example B:

Torii Hunter does not deserve to be the same sentece as Willie Mays.  Including that one.

So those aren't examples.  Just the same.

by AdamOnFirst on Jan 6, 2006 12:13 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Excuse me Adam
Maybe you should think about what you are reading before jumping in every discussion and making some smart.... comments.  

I was not referring to "someone being too young to have seen him play, therefore their opinion doesn't count."  Rather, I was referring to myself being in my early teens and not appreciating Mays defense because of my youth.  Yes Adam, I saw Mays play!

by roger on Jan 6, 2006 7:55 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Well
Just the same then.

Do you agree though?  I hate it at the end of an argument when the old person tries to pull that, well, you just weren't around crap.  Usually, it is just when they know they are beat and it is all they have left because you have defeated their other points.

by AdamOnFirst on Jan 7, 2006 12:34 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Yes
...although I don't think it has all that much to do with age.  On the other hand, someone who had seen Mays play a lot would be in a better position to discuss his defense than those who have seen a few clips including that one unvelievable catch.  I am happy that I got to see him in person...he was a very special player.

by roger on Jan 7, 2006 8:10 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Agreed
While I generally agree that seeing the player is important, it still grinds on me.  It is like an age provided cop out.

My father grew up in Iowa, and there was a little minor league team nearby.  It was a Giants franchise, so Mays came through for like, two months, then moved on up.  It is kind of fun to think about...

Actually, that may have been the Minneapiolis Millers...

Well, at any rate, either my dad or step-dad went to a few of those games...

by AdamOnFirst on Jan 7, 2006 12:39 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Hunter's defense is Mays-like
Adam,

There's a sentence for you that not only makes sense, but it's true. I also said Hunter would never do what Mays did offensively. There's another sentence containing both names that makes sense and is true. And I said, I never saw Mays play, but Hunter's the best I've ever seen (specifically about defense). There's a third sentence that both makes sense and is true.

Read, think, then write.

Joe Mauer for MVP.

by cmathewson on Jan 6, 2006 11:12 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Only
Hunter's defense is Mays like only if you mean in style.

Hunter is good, but Mays might be the best ever.

by AdamOnFirst on Jan 7, 2006 12:33 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

I'll grant you that...
...Mays might be the best ever. But we really don't know. He certainly was the best of all time before the recent times. Mays never made plays that Griffey, Edmonds, Hunter, and Andrew Jones make routinely. Nobody scaled the wall until Bo Jackson and Griffey Jr. came along. And range is a tough thing to measure, especially since no one was spotting Mays in those days. All I have to go on is film clips.

And I can say that on his greatest catch ever, Hunter, Jones, and Griffey in his prime would have it in their back pockets. Guys in those times did not have 10.0 speed in the 100 meters. Mays seemed superhuman compared to the lumbering center fielders of his day. I don't think he would seem that way today.

And I still contend that I have seen Hunter make five catches no other center fielder alive would even try for. The most memorable being the catch in the All Star game. I stil have a picture of that. With Ichiro standing next to him, Hunter's knees are above Ichiro's head. And he made the leap running full steam into the right-center gap, closer to right than center. I also remember a catch of a Carlos Lee drive in which Hunter grabbed the top of the short baggie in straight-away center with his right hand, pulled himself up to his waist and caught the line drive a full five feet above the wall. He did that after racing back to get it.

All I'm saying is this kind of defense is a treat to watch and to pitch in front of. It should not be so lightly cast aside because we think a guy makes more money than he's worth on the market , or we think he's got a big mouth, or we think he should hit like Mays.

Joe Mauer for MVP.

by cmathewson on Jan 7, 2006 12:00 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

One more thing
Before he became a star, he became famous for running through a wall in AAA. He's always played this way. He's learned new ways of controlling his body to make more plays. But he's not playing for the cameras. He's playing for outs.
Joe Mauer for MVP.

by cmathewson on Jan 3, 2006 5:50 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Reasons to keep Hunter
  1. He's the best defensive center fielder in the game. You want proof? Talk to any avanced scout.
  2. He's among the top center fielders in the AL in OPS. True, center fielders tend not to hit very well because teams value defense so much. And Hunter is not a great hitter like his predecessor (no not Rich Backer, Kirby Puckett). But he's a very good hitting center fielder.
  3. He is one of two AL center fielders who is a threat to hit home runs from the right side of the plate every time he comes up (Vernon Wells is the other). The Twins now have more pop from the right side, but because most of their top young hitters hit left handed, Hunter's right-handed power bat is especially important to this team.
  4. He hustles his butt off and runs into walls at full steam to get every out he can. This guy works very hard, probably harder than any other AL center fielder. You'd have to not really follow the Twins to say he doens't hustle.
  5. He wants to win. Some people interpret his comments in the newspaper and criticizing his team, his manager or his general manager. Yes, some of it is critical, but no more critical than any of us, his manager, or his coaches have been. Why have we been critical? Because we want the team to win and  we're disappointed when they don't meet reasonable expectations. Hunter's views have been expressed by local bloggers over and over. Why are they seen as  detrimental to the team just because they come out of his mouth?
  6. He is worth more to the Twins than TR can get in exchange. Every time someone suggests we trade Hunter, I ask, for whom? They either suggest that we take too little (Hunter for Marte straight up? Give me a break.), or they suggest more than other teams are willing to give up.
I have to believe if TR was offered a package of players in exchange for Hunter that improved this team overall, he would take that deal. It hasn't materialized because Hunter's worth more to us than any other team.
Joe Mauer for MVP.

by cmathewson on Jan 2, 2006 1:22 PM EST   0 recs

Hunter for Marte
I don't know that the Twins, even if they wanted to, could trade Hunter for Marte, much less Hunter for Marte and another top prospect.  But if you add a team, throw in more players overall, it might be possible.

I think the real reason they won't trade Hunter right now is that it would seem to be giving up on the season, and though I disagree with that being the case, I understand it a little.

However, I think it is worth the risk to trade for a cheap potential superstar who could play a decent 3B, provide RH power, talk a walk, and bat .260 (my estimate) his first year.  Somebody who has Shandler's 2006 book might enlighten us on his major league equivalents the last two years.

By the way, I'm reasonably high on rule V pick Pridie, whom I don't think the Rays thought would go (due to injury).  They took Angel Garcia from the Twins with the first pick last year and returned him.  Perhaps if Pridie can't stick, we can exchange the two.

Sometime your low self-esteem is just good common sense.

by statman on Jan 3, 2006 4:45 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Respectfully disagree
I've said this in other threads, but I'll repeat it here: Hunter is way more valuable than Marte right now. Marte has not done anything at the majors, even when Cox gave him a shot for a couple of weeks. So it's by no means certain that he will have a better career than Michael Cuddyer, who had similar prospect status in 2002 and never was able to become anything more than average. Yes he still has upside, but I wouldn't trade a star center fielder for Cuddyer circa 2002, knowing what I know now.

Which is to say, it's a risk. Marte might turn out to be Albert Pujols or David McCarty. It's a pretty big gamble to put one of the top two or three center fielders in the AL into the pot in hopes that you can win the hand and get the best hitter around in two or three years. In exchange for that risk, Boston would need to up the ante by at least one proven major league hitter, preferably with power from the right side. Someone in the class of Craig Monroe or Kevin Mench.

And even if Boston did manage to trade, say Arroyo to the Rangers for Mench and ship him to the Twins with Marte for Hunter, it would be a tough fit for the Twins because Stewart's got left and the Twins hope Kubel (who I rate higher than Marte) takes over right at some point in 2006. With White at DH, there's no place for Mench.

Finally, say Marte is your third baseman of the future. What do you do with Moses, whom I rate higher than Duncan, all things consdered?

I'm not convinced even a Hunter for Mench and Marte is a good fit for this team. I do like Hunter for Wells, Koskie and cash, though. But I don't know why JP would do that deal.

Joe Mauer for MVP.

by cmathewson on Jan 3, 2006 10:30 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Marte plus?
I mentioned this before, but what would you think of a trade of Hunter for Marte and another CF that is on the block, like Patterson of the Cubs or Reed of Seattle.

Both are LH, which is unfortunate, but would be able to come close to matching Hunter's D.  Marte could be groomed to be the everyday 3B by July or August if Batista doesn't work out.

by snuessle on Jan 3, 2006 12:05 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Marte
Isn't Marte one of the key parts of the pending 4-team trade for Manny and Tejeda?

by roger on Jan 3, 2006 12:40 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Still weakens the team
I think you put your finger on it when you stated that neither is right handed. So you lose right handed pop in the middle of the order, and your offense suffers, at least until Marte is ready. By then, we would likely be looking up at the White Sox and Indians and waiting for next year.

Also, I disagree that Patterson or Reed could give you what Hunter gives you in center. They could give you about what Ford would give you. And I think I'd rather have Ford than Patterson anyway. perhaps a Ford/Reed platoon would be OK, but I don't like the loss of range there.

I would go for Marte and Cameron. But my guess is the Padres want Cameron for his defense and the Red Sox have nobody to offer that could give them an adequate replacement. So now we're talking about a four-way deal. I don't know. It's fun to speculate, but it's probably tougher to pull it off than we might imagine.

Joe Mauer for MVP.

by cmathewson on Jan 3, 2006 1:00 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Right...
While were at it lets trade "Yohon Santana" He probably wants to be in the limelight, and he isnt really a fierce competitor.

Let's get serious people!... Whens the last time you DIDN'T see Torri sacrafice his body to dive for a ball or crash into a fence to make a sweet grab? An unfierce competitor wouldn't have messed up his ankle trying to make an insane catch by a wierd fenceline.

Do some research and have sound backup if you want to make a point.

by Petey on Jan 2, 2006 1:32 PM EST   0 recs

Trade
I agree now that Hunter definitely wants out and it might be a good time to trade him, but it is ridiculous to question his competitive spirit.  

I might be ok with a deal with Toronto sending Hillenbrand and Wells over here for Hunter and Guerrier or Balfour.  

by TheMattWilke on Jan 2, 2006 1:33 PM EST   0 recs

Hunter's cool with the Twins guys
Dudes,

On the Best Damn Sports Show a couple months ago, Hunter said he wants to stay with the Twins. They even pressed him on it, saying how could he possibly want to stay with the Twins. And he said, I think I want to finish up my career here.

Word.

by natetheskate on Jan 2, 2006 3:49 PM EST   0 recs

Next time
I found out pretty quick that this is not a board where you can just say what you want and have people go "oh yeah, that guys got something"  Its pretty clear that if you don't back up your ideas and just write your personal feelings you get ripped to shreds pretty fast.  Hunter should definately stay.
Not smart enough to have a signature.

by WITwinsfan on Jan 2, 2006 9:12 PM EST   0 recs

Just a pet peeve creeping in here...
There is no "a" in definite.  Been reading it from quite a few posters, so please don't take offense.

Also, I seriously went bonkers on someone for spelling, etc. one night after the bars closed.  So, so sorry (it might have been the one who started this thread).  I was too embarrassed the next day to read any post after my own.

Finally, none of that detracts from my yuck feelings for JJ as a player. :-)  Let's go get Andy Marte now.

Sometime your low self-esteem is just good common sense.

by statman on Jan 3, 2006 4:54 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

We don't
We don't need to trade Hunter unless we get the right offer.  You guys all said it...

by AdamOnFirst on Jan 6, 2006 12:37 AM EST   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

TT is an SB Nation blog of, by and for the fans. We strive to be the best Minnesota Twins blog by providing quality content and analysis, as well as daily news and notes on the team. We hope you'll make Twinkie Town your home for all things Twins!

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Genelarkin_small
Starting Pitching Game Score analysis

Recent FanPosts

Images_small
LIES!
Small
Beltre Trade All But Squashed?
Small
Minor League Report...July 19, 2008
Simpsons_8f13_small
7/18 Post Game wrapup
Small
Question for Twins Territory
Flast_small
The New Media and Quotes
Fatty_small
Liriano time?
Fitch372aurora_073_small
AL Cy Yuk of the half year: Carlos Silva, Mariners
Small
Yo Adrian, as well as Casey, Hank, and Garrett
Morneau_small
I don't know what to name this, but involves off-season contracts Carlos Gomez, and Denard Span

Post_icon New FanPost All FanPosts Carrot-mini


Editor-In-Chief

Twinkietown_small Jesse

Senior Writer

Hrbek_small Jon Marthaler

Fatty_small cmathewson

Moderators

Images_small AdamOnFirst

ad

Site Meter