Propaganda Pool: Alfonso Soriano
On Tuesday, the Washington Nationals placed 2B Jose Vidro on the disabled list. Could this play to the Twins advantage?
By now everyone knows that Soriano is topping the Most Wanted lists of any team considered a "buyer" heading up to the July 31 trade deadline. In a world where the Washington Nationals were competing for a shot at the postseason, the injury to Vidro could have seen the Nationals withdraw Soriano from the blocks as they moved him back to second base. But as things stand, even though 9 games out of a Wild Card isn't unfathomable for a comeback (just ask us), Washington is chasing 10 teams. They also don't have the roster to mount a late surge. Soriano is on the block, regardless of Vidro's injury, and this could play into the hands of the Twins.
With the Nationals in need of a starting second baseman, and with the Twins full up in the outfield (especially with the imminent return of Torii Hunter), Castillo could be used as a major selling point and reduce the need for the Twins to offer a top prospect to complete the deal. Combining Luis Castillo and Jesse Crain could be enough to land Minnesota Alfonso Soriano...as our second baseman.
While Soriano's defense is less than desirable, at second base or in left field, it's not as though Castillo is the Gold Glove calibre defender we hoped he still was. Additionally, what you lose in the field you gain at the plate.
I'm going to be the first to admit that I'm blinded by the sheer genius of this idea, if only because I haven't bounced my plan off anybody yet. That's where you come in. Can Terry Ryan get this done?
Salaries
In 2006, Jesse Crain is making $360,000. Luis Castillo is raking in $5,000,000. Soriano is a bit more expensive, at $10,000,000. Even if you pro-rate the salaries for the remainder of the season, the Twins would still end up owing Alfonso $3,000,000 to $4,000,000.
While this does make for an expensive rental being that Soriano is a free agent at season's end, consider this: Luis Castillo's $5,750,000 option for 2007 kicks in with just another 35 at-bats. Jesse Crain (unless I'm mistaken) is elligible for arbitration, meaning his salary will jump in the offseason. This is food for thought; I'll get back to it later.
Personnel
The Twins in this proposed trade receive 2B Alfonso Soriano, who becomes our second baseman for the remainder of 2006. This leaves the outfield roster as it is, since we're going to have enough troubles finding at-bats for Hunter, Kubel, Cuddyer, White and Tyner. Decisions will need to be made as this situation gets sticky.
The Twins lose 2B Luis Castillo and RHP Jesse Crain. Castillo's absence is covered in the trade. Crain, who has been better than his numbers indicate, is finding himself in a very tight bullpen where Rick Anderson can basically close his eyes and point at random to put an effective reliever into the game. Juan Rincon and Joe Nathan own the 8th and 9th innings respectively, and have done so consistently over the last two and a half seasons. Then comes Pat Neshek, Dennys Reyes, Jesse Crain, Willie Eyre and Kyle Lohse. Oh yes, Matt Guerrier is working his way back as well. I've always been a fan of Jesse Crain, and yes, for more reasons than just because we have the same first name, but could he be an expendable commodity in this scenario? He has a good fastball and slider, has a good strikeout rate and has been talked up as a potential closer in the recent past.
Bullpen and Lineup Adjustments
In ideal circumstances, your bullpen's best arms align like this:
Name Duty
Nathan Closer
Rincon Set-up
Neshek 6th/7th
Reyes LOOGY/6th/7th
Eyre 6th/7th
Lohse Long Relief
Guerrier Long Relief
As you can see the Twins would still be busting at the seems in the bullpen. This scenario leaves the door open for Lohse on the trading block, and could give Eyre more consistent appearances to gain confidence and actually see Major Leage hitting. That, or you could send him to Rochester in order to get regular time. One or the other needs to happen, because you can't let talent waste away on the bench. Right, Luis Rodriguez?
The batting order could be construed in a number of different ways, but knowing how Gardenhire likes to balance his right and left-handed hitters, and how easily Punto reaches base, this is how I see it:
Pos B Name
3B R Nick Punto
C L Joe Mauer
2B R Alfonso Soriano
1B L Justin Morneau
RF R Michael Cuddyer
CF R Torii Hunter
DH L Jason Kubel
LF R Rondell White
SS R Jason Bartlett
Punto leads off, as a patient hitter who takes a walk as easily as he gets a hit. Soriano splits up the two lefties, and sliding Mauer into the two-hole means Morneau can slip into the cleanup spot, which is where he should be hitting anyway. Cuddyer, who has been effective, hits fifth, where his offensive prowess is better suited. Hunter, with his moderate power, remains hitting sixth. The rest of the bottom of the order remains unchanged as well.
Combining Logistics and Moving Forward
Castillo will be 31 on September 12, and has already shown signs of decay in his game. His offense has levelled out around .280/.335/.370, but I'd have an easier time justifying Hunter's $12,000,000 in 2007 for his likely numbers than justifying Castillo's $5,750,000 for his likely 2007 numbers, considering the decline of typical middle infielders in their early-30's. Moving Punto to second base in next year and using the money saved from the Castillo move to find a third baseman, via free agency or trade, is a viable solution for the hot corner debacle.
In 2007 there will be another batch of Twins pitching ready to make an impact in The Show. Beau Kemp and Ricky Barrett, not to mention Matt Garza and Boof Bonser, will all be ready to legitimately vie for spots on the 25-man roster. While losing Crain will remove a favorite of mine from the roster, there will be others to take his place.
Conclusions
While the Twins organization would have to open the wallets to attain Soriano, it's a gamble that could pay off. He's strikeout prone, but Soriano hits for average and for power, something the Twins can use more of to help make the offense a threat in the postseason.
Losing Castillo and Crain, both good players, won't create any large holes, won't cost us prospects and creates a little more payroll flexibility for next season.
Prior to Soriano's discontent over having to play the outfield in Washington, he had been a clubhouse and fan favorite in New York and in Texas. A return to second base will only make him happier.
Why I believe the injury to Vidro aides the Twins is because we can offer a player like Castillo, who still has value, to a team who not only needs a second baseman but needs the appearance of not just selling for the sake of selling. Getting two players like Castillo and Crain cushions the blow of losing a player like Soriano. Sure, we lost a guy, but look who we got for you! A shiny, slightly used, but good, second baseman! Ooh! And look at this! A young pitcher with a pretty fastball!
I'll leave you with some numbers on Soriano. I've convinced myself this is a legitimately doable trade, and one that could give the Twins a little extra push as we enter the month of August. Let's get it done.
2006 Statistics
G AB H R 2B 3B HR RBI SB SO BB Avg Obp Slg
99 402 115 74 25 2 31 62 25 89 43 .286 .360 .590
Advanced Batting Statistics
VORP EQA WARP BRAR BRAA
40.0 .310 5.1 41 28
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Comments
I REALLY like the idea...
Punto-2b
Kubel-LF
Mauer-C
Soriano-CF
Morneau-1b
Cuddyer-RF
DH-signing a decent mid-tier option (or White if he continues to hit)
3b-can be had easily from dealing Hunter
Bartlett-SS
As for the pen, as you mention, as much as I love Crain, we have more than enough arms on the way. I don't think Eyre is fit for this team right now, but I think under a scenario like this I'd like Lohse to stay, effectively taking Neshek's spot now, with Neshek taking Crain's. A bullpen of Nathan, Rincon, Neshek, Lohse, Reyes, Guerrier.
I would also like to see the deal expanded somehow with the Nats to include someone like Armas to solidify the back of our rotation this year. They can have Silva if they want, and another prospect or two. Then we can essentially use Baker/Garza for the 5th spot, with Guerrier/Lohse picking up slack in games that they aren't able to pull through with.
I love this potential deal, but all of the above being said, I don't see a package like this doing it. It would be intriguing, but if Bowden is smart (always a tricky proposition--I have ZERO confidence in his intelligence) he will realize that he basically has no shot at the playoffs for the next 2-3 years at least in the NL East, with the Mets and Marlins there, and will build for longer term with all prospects in a deal for Soriano. I think not only would it take Castillo and Crain (if they're interested in both) but it would also take a couple of other prospects. Now, I would probably still do that if they're not named Garza or Slowey. I just don't know that the Nats would feel the same way.
Again, very interesting proposal. I'll definitely be watching closely to see what happens here.
by djskilbr on Jul 26, 2006 4:40 AM EDT reply actions
Eh
But at this point, i'm not expecting anything big. Basically, Lohse will probobly be dealt, and that is it. I'm hoping the Twins might deal Castillo this offseason in a move for a third abseman so Punto can move to second, but I don't really see that beign all too likely either.
Not likely
The best thing that could be a reality to happen is for the Angels or possibly Mariners to come in and make the deal by giving up some of their top prospects. That way he goes to the AL west and really doesn't play much of a factor on division or wild card factor.
While I am at it, the other best thing that could happen is if Silva gets hammered for six or seven runs in the first three innings, and the Twins slug their way back and win the game to tie the wild card standings.
by cedab03 on Jul 26, 2006 10:25 AM EDT reply actions
What the Nats will get
Crain is perfectly viable as a major part of any deal like this. Have you seen the premium on middle relief this year? His numbers have been lights out over the past few weeks and he could be a prime set up guy now, if not a closer down the road. He is far more valuable than any compensatory draft pick. I'm less sold on the value of Castillo to the Nationals. I would dangle Span or Romero plus Crain and another B prospect, take it or leave it...
I just don't see a bidding war for Soriano. The teams that could initiate such a war don't want to part with prospects (read: Angels and even Tigers). Bowden is playing a dangerous game of chicken and I don't think he's gonna get anywhere near the bounty many imagine.
As for the general plan outlined by Jesse...absolutely the right strategy, but I'm not convinced Soriano is the right bat. I'd be more convinced of Carlos Lee. But the theory is right...dump Hunter, use his money on a big and I mean BIG right handed bat, pick up a defensive CF in FA or by trade (Tavares, Erstad, Roberts, et al) and put together a vicious middle of the order punctuated by speed/OBP type pests around the edges.
by HrbekIsMyHero on Jul 26, 2006 10:37 AM EDT reply actions
Won't get it done
And although it may seem like it won't take much to get Soriano (the "anything better than compensation picks" theory), there could very well be a bidding war simply due to teams attempting to block their competition from acquiring him. The Tigers and White Sox could easily top a silly offer like Crain and Castillo, not to mention most any offer involving just lower-level prospects.
by spycake on Jul 26, 2006 11:01 AM EDT reply actions
Trading to prevent others from prospering
Ultimately Soriano's value, if any, will be determined by the need of the buyer. Neither Tigers nor WhiteSox nor Yankees (oh my) really need Soriano. Angels and Twins more naturally fit that "need" category but are much less free with trading prospects. Multiply together...I don't think there's a big haul waiting for Bowden AND I still think Ryan may be contacted by a drunken, wild eyed Bowden on Monday night the 31st and offer Alfonso for two beer cans and a Kyle Lohse trading card. Again, we'll see.
by HrbekIsMyHero on Jul 26, 2006 11:09 AM EDT reply actions
Response
And likewise the Twins aren't budging on Garza, so the Nationals aren't moving him. What's your point? It's still a HUGE stretch to think they'll settle for lesser prospects (or an expensive, redundant player like Castillo). If that becomes the case, then everybody and their mothers can put together a "competitive" package and probably outbid the Twins. The Twins aren't getting any special favors here.
Ultimately Soriano's value, if any, will be determined by the need of the buyer.
No, the Nationals still control his fate this year. They don't have to trade him. If the best offers consist primarily of Lohse or Castillo, the Nationals will just hang on to him and gamble that they'll get an actual player of value with multiple compensation picks (Garza wasn't selected until the 25th pick last year, Huston Street was the 40th overall pick in 2004, etc, so it's not unheard of).
by spycake on Jul 26, 2006 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
No, no......
Ultimately, you have to offer a package faaaar better than the two draft picks the Nats would pick up if he went the free agent route.
Crain is a good choice. He may be closer material. But if not, he's just another solid arm in the bullpen, destined to be a journeyman.
You would have to add 2-3 prospects in the deal. But by doing that, you might be able to swing Armas in the deal, too.
And, yes, force the Nats to take on a Lohse or Castillo or even a Rondell White.
If and when Torii comes back, I'm going to miss Tyner in the everyday lineup. I would almost rather see him regularly in left that White or Kubel. And I would ratehr see Kubel (knees permitting) at DH than White. White has shown some spark, but he's still lowman on the hitting totem-pole. And heaven forbid where Lew Ford where pop up when he returns. We need to trade or DL someone.
by twintown on Jul 26, 2006 11:15 AM EDT reply actions
Why would the Nats want Castillo?
I would rather not take a rent-a-player. If the Twins want an infielder who can hit, I'd rather go after someone who will not be a free agent next year, such as Freddy Sanchez. But the Pirates probably don't want Castillo or Lohse, so we're looking at a three-way deal. The Dodgers need a veteran second basman and have expresed interests in Lohse. So they might be a partner in a three way deal that inclused Sanchez. Just a thought.
What?!
Pittsburgh would need to be overwhelmed to even consider moving Sanchez at this point, and not only can the Twins not afford to "overwhelm" them, I don't see any team willing to "overwhelm" them on our behalf in exchange for our spare parts.
by spycake on Jul 26, 2006 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Placeholder
Luis Castillo
Last weekend, JR & I got on the elevator going down to breakfast. Just so happened Castillo was also on it. As he was leaving, I said "have a great day." To which he responded with the most wonderful smile. As he left the elevator he was walking ahead of us with a very noticeable limp. I don't know if he will ever be 100%, at least playing on the Dome's surface...but he certainly is playing with what has to be substantial pain.
I can see his being an asset in this clubhouse full of young kids. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." After winning 33 out of the last 41 means it certainly isn't broke.
by roger @ Twinkie Town on Jul 26, 2006 12:01 PM EDT reply actions
Castillo
If you move Castillo and parts for a third baseman, you can move Punto to second. As far as who would be the lead-off hitter, I'd pick Punto. Bartlett can handle the second slot. Or, if you do land a middle of the order third baseman, you can just slide Mauer up to the second slot.
There's no urgency to trade him. But now might be the best time, if the right package comes around.
Kubel...
by djskilbr on Jul 26, 2006 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Basically yeah
Ya...
by djskilbr on Jul 26, 2006 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think we need to worry
On Castillo though, I don't think he will be back. I do see him being dealt in the offseason, Punto going to 2nd, and getting a 3rd basemen if there is one available.
On Soriano and prospects...here is an interesting read from the NY Post
http://www.nypost.com/sports/twins_can_make_a_killing_sports_joel_sherman.htm
by cedab03 on Jul 26, 2006 12:19 PM EDT reply actions
Hypothetical 3B
by Jlubby on Jul 26, 2006 12:53 PM EDT reply actions
There's not much...
by djskilbr on Jul 26, 2006 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
And...
by djskilbr on Jul 26, 2006 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Ya...
by djskilbr on Jul 26, 2006 1:18 PM EDT reply actions
Ryan
by Twins2006 on Jul 26, 2006 3:10 PM EDT reply actions
CMath and others...
by roger @ Twinkie Town on Jul 26, 2006 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Not true...
by djskilbr on Jul 26, 2006 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions
If
I am a big supporter of moving Castillo and using that and/or other resources to aquire a better thirdbasmena then have Punto play second, but paying Torrii Hunterr too much money is something we have little choice but to aquiese to for one more year.
True, but...
Yep...
by djskilbr on Jul 26, 2006 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Soriano...
Just like at 2B, by playing Soriano there you would be giving away all of the benefits from his offense by making the defense leakier.
Agree
But I wouldn't say you giv ebakc all of his ofensive contributions with his poor defense, though you do give back a healthy chunk.
I disagree...
by djskilbr on Jul 26, 2006 10:38 PM EDT reply actions
More than tools...
I don't buy Soriano as a league average defensive CF.
As I said...
Obviously there's no way to prove this out though unless it happened.
by djskilbr on Jul 26, 2006 11:55 PM EDT reply actions
Soriano is a chimera
Denard Span has more tools than Soriano but he's not nearly the center fielder that Hunter, Tyner, or Ford are because he still has to learn how to read balls off the bat. Unless you've played out there, it's tough to describe what you have to do to be successful. As a former center fielder, I know that it takes more than speed. It takes reading where the ball will be hit before it's hit and running at full speed to where you anticipate the ball will be.
Nobody is better than Hunter at this skill. And it's not something that can be taught. It's pure instinct. To expect someone to pick this up at age 28 is pure folly. Soriano is not a good left fielder despite his speed for this reason. He never learned how to read balls off the bat. Its the same reason he's a poor second baseman, again despite his speed. He just doens'nt have very good baeball instincts. For this reason alone, he will never be worth what his stats dictate or what those stats garner in salary or trade value. You can't be a good all around player if all you have is a good bat.
And even his bat is suspect. He swings the heaviest bat in the game. Why? Because all he wants to do is hit home runs. He has zero ability for situational hitting. He swings the same regardless of the count, the pitcher, the number of outs, the inning, or who is on base. So he strikes out a lot and doesn't capitilize on scoring opportunities. And he almost never takes advantage of his speed on the bases.
In short, he's the antithesis of a small market player: Someone who can do the little things to win regardless of talent and who will not cost an arm and a leg because of the value of statistics like home runs. He will never be worth to the Twins what other teams will pay for him. I hope and pray that Terry Ryan is smart enough to steer clear of Soriano. I think he is.
CF...
by djskilbr on Jul 27, 2006 1:48 PM EDT reply actions
This is assuming...
by spycake on Jul 27, 2006 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree...
by djskilbr on Jul 27, 2006 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Why?
Furthermore, His contract runs out at the end of the year, and if we got him, it would be a rental. We wouldn't have time to "teach him CF (at age 28, whil eprobobly reluctant) in the next two months anyway.
This is one of the biggest popedreams I've ever seen.
Hey, guys. Wouldn't it be great if Jason Kubel were healhty enough to learn to play third base, so we could start him there?
by AdamOnFirst on Jul 27, 2006 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Urp
by AdamOnFirst on Jul 27, 2006 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions
replying to your previous comment
by cortalekanak on Jan 13, 2007 12:18 AM EST reply actions

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