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Jesse Crain for 2008?

I have been on the record for expressing concern about trading Joe Nathan. The recent signings of Mike Lamb and Adam Everett make a trade unlikely this offseason, but even before those moves were made, my hope was that the Twins could fill holes through free agent signings and the Johan Santana trade.

The main reason for this is I just don't see any healthy closer candidates in the bullpen. Pat Neshek could become a closer, but after last season's second half collapse, that's a pretty risky proposition. Matt Guerrier is a good set-up man, but he blew almost as many leads as Neshek last year. Juan Rincon has been in steady decline the last three years and projects as a mop-up guy at this point. Dennys Reyes is likely a one-year wonder, and he's coming off of elbow surgery. Glen Perkins will likely be converted into a starter. Removing the Twins' best reliever from that mix makes the bullpen highly suspect. And trading the Twins best closer prospect in Eduardo Morlan makes a Nathan trade even more risky.

The one guy who could possibly close is a big question mark. Jesse Crain, who will be nine months removed from rotator cuff and labrum surgery when spring training begins, projected as a closer before he got sidetracked with the injuries and excessive tinkering by his pitching coach. If Crain comes back to his rookie form after recovery, Nathan might become expendable, but that's a big if. The near-term future of this bullpen rests on Crain's shoulder, so I'm trying to get as much info about it as I can.

I am inherently pessimistic about shoulder injuries, especially labrum injuries. Some guys like Nathan have come back from rotator cuff injuries to dominate, but it usually takes a couple of years to regain their former velocity. The prognosis on labrum injuries is worse. If you have both rotator cuff and labrum surgery, your career could be over, especially for a short reliever who relies more on stuff than guile.

My doctor friend who regularly talks with Dr. Steubs--the Twins designated joint cutter--gave me a little inside info on Crain. He said some shoulder surgeries are more clean-up jobs than major reconstruction. In these cases guys can return to their former selves (perhaps a little better) in one year or so. He said Crain is this kind of case. Both tears were small and clean, which makes the healing much more certain and predictable. So the Twins' published prognosis of nine to 12 months from last May, or in time for spring training, doesn't sound so outlandish at this time.

A little birdie filed this report in the Pioneer Press today. "Forgotten Twins reliever Jesse Crain, who was in town last week, is long tossing from 120 feet as part of his rehabilitation following rotator cuff surgery last May and is expected to be recovered for spring training."

I know we have to consider the source, but if this is true, it's really good news. A healthy and productive Crain gives the Twins a great midseason trade option in Nathan. But I wouldn't condone trading Nathan until Crain demonstrates against live major league hitters that he can consistently put zeros on the board. That was by no means certain before the surgery. And it remains to be seen if it will happen after the surgery. But if it happens, it could set the team up for a trade that completes the puzzle for this team to contend as early as 2009.

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Thanks
Thanks for the update on Crain.  I am holding out hope that he can return and become a valued piece of the bullpen.  

However, I do agree with you that the Twins can't count on Crain for anything at this time.  Still, if Santana is traded, does it make any sense to hold on to Nathan?  A good closer isn't needed on a non-playoff contending team.

by dbimberg on Dec 18, 2007 9:45 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Losing is a disease
And nothing is more demoralizing to a team than blowing late leads. So even though the Twins don't expect to contend this year without Santana, it is important to have a decent bullpen. Without Nathan, I wouldn't call this bullpen decent.

Plus, the Twins can trade him in July if they're offered a package better than a couple of former first-round draft picks. They wouldn't get any less for him at that time (they'd possibly get more). And they'd give the guys they have some hope of being competitive in the interim. That's the way I'm leaning anyway.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Dec 18, 2007 10:00 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Nathan
Yes, I too think you'd get equally as good offers for Joe in July as you would now. And the teams that make the offers are dealing with deseration as well as wanting to win.

Even dealing Joe now, there's nothing that says a team will sign him or be able to sign him to a long-term contract. That's the gamble Joe gets to take...sign for 3-years and $25-30 million this winter, or hold out after a great '08 (one always looks positive) and get either a longer or bigger contract. At this stage, I'm sure Joe would like to see 4-5 years of money ratehr than 2 or even 3.

The Twins have a solid bullpen for '08 and they can shuffle a few guys in and out. I would think Liriano might start at AAA so someone (Bass, Balckburn) might start the season. Will Perkins be a long-man and then go abck to AAA to work up innings bugs to return as a starter in 2009?

Who do the Twins turn to as a long-man. I miss Guerrier in this role. Right now, between Neshek/Guerrier/Crain and Rincon, the Twins have at least one arm too many for the roles those guys play.

Reyes is a bargain at his $1+ million. Is there another lefty the Twins can use? Cali, DePaula, Mijares, Korecky...any of them long-guys, potential bullpen strengths, or just that 11th pitcher.

It would be ncie to see Nathan as a closer for at least half the season, if the starters can pitch 5-6 consistently and the hitters can keep the Twins in the game.

check out Twinkies autograph collection at www.TwinsCards.com

by twintown on Dec 18, 2007 10:19 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Options to Close
I'm suprised that no one else here has mentioned this yet (that I've noticed), but we do have another option as a closer: Liriano.

No, I'm not saying the Twins should give up on him as a starter.  -But let's just say that he tweaks something again on the mound.  The Twins might eventually decide that he's not durable enough to stay in the rotation.  He does have 2 overpowering pitches in his fastball and slider.  That's all you need to be a top closer.

Again, I'm not saying that the Twins should even consider this an option at this time.  However, I do think that it could be a definite possibility in the future if he gets hurt again.

-Flip

by Flip27 on Dec 18, 2007 10:25 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Long man
I don't know about Liriano starting in AAA. He's healthy and ready to go. If so, he's the best pitcher the Twins have not named Santana. Whatever talk from teh Twins about him starting in AAA is just motivation for him. I predict he'll start the season in the rotation.

Supposing the Twins have the following rotation:

Liriano
Baker
Hughes/Lester
Bonser
Slowey/Perkins

I project Blackburn as the long man. Whoever does not win the fifth spot (probably Perkins) would go to AAA to get innings in.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Dec 18, 2007 10:30 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

CMath...
...did you read Seth's Q&A today with Neshek.  Was excellent and I think he did a good job of explaining what happened to him last year...which coupled with overuse just plain tired out his arm.  Also agree that Crain coming back would be huge for this team...but it is a big question mark until he is throwing in Spring Training games.

by roger on Dec 18, 2007 2:44 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Overuse
I think he can maintain more strength if he just sticks with his lifting program for the whole year. But I still worry about how he would handle the closer workload on a contender for a whole year and into the playoffs. He seemed to have the most trouble on consecutive games, which is a problem for a potential closer. Nathan sometimes pitches three or four days in a row. I just don't know how Neshek could handle that kind of work late in the season until he proves that he can.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Dec 18, 2007 2:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think...
that Neshek wouldn't have any more workload as a closer than as the primary reliever though.  I really think he'll be fine this year.

On Crain, great to hear.  Completely agreed.  We may wait until we see that he's healthy to deal Nathan for sure.  One thing about the timing of a Nathan trade; it probably depends on what we want in return, or what we get in return for Johan (assuming he's dealt; I'm still hoping against hope he's not).  For instance, if we want a major leaguer in return, it's probably tougher to trade him in the season.  But if we want prospects, it's probably even easier.

Lastly, on Liriano, I too think he'll be in the rotation, and I want him there instead of AAA.  You have to figure they'll have a cap on his innings this year, so I don't want us wasting any of those precious innings down in the minors.  Get them all with the big club.  Plus I trust Rick A. with him more than anything in the minors.

by djskilbr on Dec 18, 2007 4:40 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Just a note on labral tears
Sorry I haven't posted anything in a LONG time, but there really weren't any pressing injury topics for me to comment on.  I do want to make a comment on the above post and labral tears with rotator cuff involvement-those two together can be a career ending injury as Jesse said.  Each injury by itself is not as bad.  A major rotator cuff tear repair will take upwards of a year for a pitcher to return from, but a minor tear will be less.  It also depends on which of the 4 rotator cuff muscles is torn-I'll spare you all the anatomy lecture.  A partial thickness tear may not even need surgery at all.  Labral tears on the other hand are a different type of beast.  As with rotator cuff injuries there are different severities to labral injuries as well.  The most common is a SLAP injury which means superior labrum anterior to posterior.  That means there is a tear is the top portion of the labrum going from front to back.  This can be caused from a single incident trauma or in this case repetitive motions (i.e. throwing).  They are actualy very common in the general public.  I spoke to Twins orthopedic physician Dr. Dan Buss at a sports medicine conference about this and he told me that three years ago 3 out of the 5 starting pitchers for the Twins had labral tears.  None of these pitchers needed to have them repaired so keep that in mind.  The treatment is physical therapy and anti-inflammatory modalities.  I guess my point is that labral tears are not necessarily as bad as they sound and are very common.  

by vagabond on Dec 18, 2007 9:18 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

sorry
My apologies CMath, I referenced Jesse in my post above by mistake.  I was referring to your comment (" I am inherently pessimistic about shoulder injuries, especially labrum injuries.")about labral tears and just wanted to add some first hand knowledge about them to the discussion.

by vagabond on Dec 18, 2007 9:23 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for that vagabond...
I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say that we greatly appreciate your insight in these matters.

Also, just another note, Pat Neshek did say over at Seth's blog that Crain is feeling really good and throwing.  And that he expects him to return strong.

He also said that he expects Rincon to bounce back as he went through a lot of personal issues last year.

I hope Pat's right on both counts!

by djskilbr on Dec 18, 2007 9:53 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I'm on
I'm on the other end of the spectrum Jesse.  If they sent Santana away, I'd want Nathan traded.  If they got a pretty good offer for him NOW, I'd want to see them jump on it.  If this team loses Santana, it isn't going anywhere this year, and there is no reason to have an elite closer around then, especially when he is so relatively cheep and so valuable in trade.

I know Nathan would not object to go to a team in the hunt.  He's said things to the effect that he doesn't see the point in a rebuilding project having much of a closer.  I see him as a big pressure junkie.  Nathan wants the ball in the pressure spot.

Baseball is great because you cant take a knee or kill the clock. You gotta put the ball over the plate and give the other guy his damn shot E Weaver abridged

by AdamOnFirst on Dec 18, 2007 11:48 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Dude...
...wasn't me...

by Jesse on Dec 20, 2007 10:33 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That's
Thats what YOU think!; or, oops.
Baseball is great because you cant take a knee or kill the clock. You gotta put the ball over the plate and give the other guy his damn shot E Weaver abridged

by AdamOnFirst on Dec 21, 2007 6:06 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

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