Pitching turnaround
Just as the Twins struggled developing middle infielders through the draft in the 1990s, they struggled to develop pitchers. As a Twins fan, I watched one prospect after another come up through the system and fail: Pat Mahomes, Todd Ritchie, Dan Serafini, Latroy Hawkins, Mike Trombley, Mike Lincoln, Travis Miller, Dan Naulty, Benj Sampson, and the list goes on.
Some of those guys did OK after leaving the Twins. Some did OK when the Twins got a new (ahem) pitching coach. But the main problem was quantity: The Twins organization did not produce enough decent arms to survive the failure of the few they had. One out of every two pitchers who does well in the minors makes the adjustment to the majors for any length of time. If you have four good prospects a year, you'll get two guys who stick. Quantity's what the Twins needed in the absence of money to buy pitchers on the free agent market. If they were lucky, they got two guys coming up and one making it in any given year. And they were not that lucky.
Even the "can't miss" pitchers that came to the Twins via trade missed. Frankie Rodriguez had one decent year and two horrible ones and never was heard from again. Dave Stevens <shudder> did his best to remind us of Ron Davis. And then there's the inexplicable mystery of how Scott Klingenbach got even a major league cup of coffee.
The only pitchers the Twins called up in the 90s who put together good careers were Scott Erickson (1990), Eddie Guardado (1993) and Brad Radke (1995). Hawkins got six opportunities to fail before succeeding under the only pitching coach on the planet who could help him. Ritchie and Trombley had success after suffering the humility of being let go by the Twins in the 90s. Lincoln also was released and had a few decent years for out of the Pirates bullpen. But when all was said and done, the Twins developed three decent pitchers in the 90s.
And to add insult to injury, the Twin's 1998 and 2000 draft choices were complete busts. Both were used on "can't miss" pitching prospects in the top 10 overall in the draft. Neither prospect survived more than a cup of coffee in the majors.
But as Old Lodge Skins said in Little Big Man "Let us not speak of that unfortunate time."
I always say Terry Ryan's greatest virtue is patience. And he was patient with Mike Radcliff, who had one good draft in his first decade on the job (1994, when the Twins acquired Hunter). Even after 2000, when the Twins drafted Adam Johnson, a couple of Millers, a kid named Kubel and little else, Ryan stuck with Radcliff. To be fair to Radcliff, signability was a much bigger issue prior to 2001 than it is now. He had to draft kids that he knew he could sign. That left him with slim pickings in an organization that had not had a winning record in nearly a decade.
At any rate, Ryan has been rewarded for his patience. Things since 2001 have taken a U turn for the better. In 2001, he couldn't help but have a good draft because he held the first overall pick. Mauer alone makes 2001 a successful draft. But from 2002 on, the Twins have had top-tier drafts despite drafting in the 20s. And, determined to reverse a pattern that left the Twins pitching staff full of imports, the Twins drafted an unprecedented number of quality arms since 2001.
Five years later, these arms are poised to transform this pitching staff into one of the youngest and best in the game. The following is a break down of the drafts from 2002 on from a pitching perspective.
2002
Jesse Crain (second round) has been one of the top set-up men in the game for the past two seasons. Pat Neshek (sixth round) is another top reliever on the Twins.
2003
Scott Baker (second round) is pitching very well in AAA after a mostly successful quick rise through the system. David Shinskie (fourth round) has struggled in the system to date, but he has hung around because of his excellent stuff. If he ever learns to harness it... Erol Simonitsch (sixth round) is a finesse lefty who has had a solid minor league career and is repeating AA because of opportunity rather than ability. Both Kevin Culpepper (ninth round) and Lavale Spiegner (14th round) were drafted in the Rule V draft in the offseason, but might return during the year if they cannot stay with their teams.
2004
This is the proverbial mother lode. The Twins had five first-round picks and used four of them on pitching. Stillwater native and former Gopher Glen Perkins has had a stellar career in the minors (with one hiccup last year) and is now pitching well in long relief for the Twins. Fellow first-round pick Kyle Waldrop is one of the top starters in the Florida State League and the top pitcher for the Fort Myers Miracle. Sandwich Pick Matt Fox is still trying to recover from major shoulder surgery. But he could emerge quickly, as Joe Nathan once did. The second sandwich pick was Jay Rainville, who has also had surgery, but his was not structural. He is now pitching very well for the Miracle. Second round pick Anthony Swarzak was flying through the system until he got in trouble with recreational drugs. Hopefully his 50-game suspension in New Britain will be the end of his use and he can return to a bright career. Third-round pick Eddie Morlan is the closer at Fort Myers and has but one blemish to his name so far. Patrick Bryant, Jay Sawatski, Kyle Aeselton, and Tim Lahey are still with the organization and have shown flashes of brilliance. Of the four, Sawatski has the best chance of donning a Twins uniform because he is a quality lefty bullpen arm. Still, even if four of the pitchers selected in this draft make a major league contribution, the Twins did very well.
2005
After loading up on pitching in 2004, the Twins had a more conventional mix of players in 2005. But they still managed to grab a handful of very good pitching prospects in this draft. The class was led by first-round pick Matt Garza, who should be in the Twins rotation right now, but is pitching well in AAA while working on his breaking pitches. Like 2004, the Twins had several extra picks in 2005. And they used one of their extra second-round picks to draft Kevin Slowey. Slowey has had an incredibly successful pro career that puts him right in the mix of arms ready to help at the major league level when needed. Currently, he's lights out at AAA. The Twins also had an extra third-round pick in this draft, one of which they used to take Brian Duensing, who's pitching very well at New Britain. The other third-round pick, fellow lefty Ryan Mullins has struggled a bit at each level. But he is on track for a college kid, it's just that compared to Crain, Baker, Perkins, Garza, Slowey, and Duensing, his progress seems slow. The Twins also drafted some high school talent in this round that might take more time. Alex Burnett and Brian Kirwan are both top talents who could end up in a Twins uniform in a few years.
2006
The 2006 draft was the opposite of the 2004 draft. Though the 2004 draft focussed on pitching, the 2006 draft focussed on hitting. Still, the Twins acquired a few additional arms that project as major league pitchers. They spent their third-round pick on a big high school lefty by the name of Tyler Robertson. So far, we have only seen his work in the GCL, but his size and early success suggest great things. Despite the Twins emphasis on bats, the jewel of the 2006 draft will likely be 14th round pick Jeff Manship. I won't go into why he slipped into the 14th round. But he's pitching like a first rounder for Beloit and should move quickly through the system as other college pitchers have in recent years. The other steal of 2006 is lefty Cole DeVries, who was not even drafted out of the U of MN, despite putting up great numbers in the Big Ten. After signing as a free agent with the Twins last summer, he's now the number 2 starter behind Manship at Beloit and should join him in Fort Myers sometime this summer.
So in a little more than a half a decade, the Twins have acquired six times the number of pitching through the draft than they were able to develop in all of the '90s. Radcliff should be proud of the work he's done. And Ryan should be pleased with the patience he's shown his scouting director.
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Oh, the pain...
Ah
Javy...
Catchers
Former Twins catching about are Henry Blanco (Cubs), Corky Miller (Braves AAA), Danny Ardoin (Houston AAA). Eric Munson, a spring training invitee, is still with the AAA Astros. Former draft choices who didn't sign -- Jason Varitek and Josh Bard -- are still going strong.
Matt LeCroy is laboring for a comeback.
Some former Twins catchers are minor league mananegrs: Brian Harper, Matt Walbeck, Marcus Jensen, JayHawk Owens and Danny Scheffer (from the farm system), Butch Wynegar.
www.TwinsCards.com
by twintown on May 5, 2007 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, yes......
by twintown on May 7, 2007 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Kevin Cameron?
I think you mean Cameron and not Culpepper. Looking at his stats, I wonder if Ryan is kicking himself for not protecting him.
You're right
Great write-up CMath...
by djskilbr on May 4, 2007 3:40 AM EDT reply actions
Good Review...
Please DO NOT do a review of the fans/supporters.
Good Stuff
by twintown on May 4, 2007 11:01 AM EDT reply actions
It could have been worse...
That would have extended the list of "wasted" draft picks for another year.
by jacku on May 4, 2007 2:00 PM EDT reply actions
Trombley
Until some of today's prospects actually produce results - they are just another list similar to the early 90's when the Twins thought they were so flush they traded away Denny Neagle for immediate help.
The reality is that most of the successful pitchers for the Twins during the first part of the decade weren't drafted. Milton, Santana, Reed, Rogers, Mays, Silva all came from elsewhere. And that continues to be the case now with the additions of Ortiz, Nathan, Guerrier. Rincon, Crain, Neshek and Perkins are the only pitchers drafted by the Twins.
by TT @ Twinkie Town on May 5, 2007 6:32 PM EDT reply actions
Trombley
Eh.......
The Twins gave him a shot, assgning him to Rochester and calling him up briefly. Some could say he didn't egt enough of a shot. But they did give him a chance before releaseing him in 2002 (5 games, 4 innings, 7 runs).
by twintown on May 7, 2007 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Right
What I was trying to establish, contra TT, was that he did not emerge with the Twins until he had passed through waivers and every other club in the league didn't want him at the low point in the franchise from a pitching perspective.
Patience
That just isn't true. First, Hunter was drafted in 1993. In 1994 the Twins took Walker, Pierzynski and Koskie. The next year they added Mark Redman and Doug Mientkiewicz. In 1996 they added Jacque Jones and Chad Allen. In 1997 they added Cuddyer, LeCroy and Romero. 1998 was a disaster, but in 1999 they took Morneau along with Bowen and Bowyer.
So lets see, an allstar catcher, MVP first baseman, a regular third baseman and starting right and left fielders. There was no "patience" required.
by TT @ Twinkie Town on May 5, 2007 6:54 PM EDT reply actions
1996
Only one of those years...
You can define what a good draft is in your own way. I define it as at least one star-quality player. That makes 1997 the only other draft after 1993 that can be characterized as "good," and only if you think Cuddyer is a star, which is debatable. (I know you have claimed that he would never make much of himself on numerous occasions--he was your favorite whipping boy for a long time. So for you to claim he is a star now is a reach.)
And the only pitchers they drafted in that time whom you list were Redman, Hawkins, and Romero. That's hardly a good track record for developing their own pitching, which is why the staff in the early 00s was primarily composed of imports.
I know you don't like to read what I write except to poke holes in it, but if you had been paying attention to the content, you would have noticed that the premise was about pitching. And you cannot deny that there is a great contrast between the quality of the drafts in the 00s versus the 90s in the pitching department.
Holes
Doesn't winning the MVP make Morneau a star? Hunter was drafted before Radcliffe took over.
getting one okay major leaguer out of a whole draft isn't very good I think...
Getting one major league regular makes a draft a success, albeit maybe slightly below average. There are going to be years, like 1998, where you don't get even that and end up with nothing or spare parts.
which is why the staff in the early 00s was primarily composed of imports.
It still is and not significantly less so than when Guardado and Hawkins were on the staff in the early 00's.
And you cannot deny that there is a great contrast between the quality of the drafts in the 00s versus the 90s in the pitching department.
I hope not, but there was a time when Adam Johnson and Brad Thomas were future stars. Until those recent drafts produce major league pitchers we don't know.
by TT @ Twinkie Town on May 6, 2007 12:44 PM EDT reply actions
Morneau
The fact that from 1994 to 1999, the Twins drafted as high as they did overall and produced so little talent only underscores the contrast between Radcliff's first six years on the job, when they drafted 8, 13, 2, 9, 6, and 5 overall, and his last seven, when they drafted 2, 1, 20, 21, 22, 25, and 20.
Getting one major league regular makes a draft a success, albeit maybe slightly below average. There are going to be years, like 1998, where you don't get even that and end up with nothing or spare parts.
We can debate all day what constitutes a good draft. But for the Twins you expect more than they returned. It's not enough to get one player to the majors from each of those drafts. They need four a year out of drafts like that to be considered a success, with one star-quality player among them. That is a recognition that two of those four will have a lasting career. I have my definition and you have yours. That difference does not constitute a hole but a difference in fundamental assumptions.
It still is and not significantly less so than when Guardado and Hawkins were on the staff in the early 00's.
Having three relievers and one starter out of a staff of 11 come from your system, when you are a team that thrives on players from your system, is not a good ratio. That ratio at the end of this decade will be significantly better--seven or eight out of 11. By the end of this year, it could be six of 11.
I hope not, but there was a time when Adam Johnson and Brad Thomas were future stars. Until those recent drafts produce major league pitchers we don't know.
When Johnson got his cup of coffee, he was the only pitching prospect close to the majors at the time. Glen Perkins is up now, and there are three or four prospects ready and waiting. As I said, there is a huge difference in quantity now than there was in the 90s. The Twins might have had one pitching prospect a year up for a look who were signed in the 90s. Now they have multiple prospects waiting for an opportunity.
Looking Back and Looking Ahead
What about these guys who also got starts that year:
Brad Thomas
Mark Redman
JC Romero
Johan Santana
Kyle Lohse
And both Grant Balfour and Juan Rincon were used out of the bullpen along with former first round choice Travis Miller.
The current crop of Twins pitching prospects may turn out better but I think most of the difference is looking back at the reality and looking forward with hope.
That ratio at the end of this decade will be significantly better--seven or eight out of 11. By the end of this year, it could be six of 11.
It is extremely doubtful the Twins will get more starts this year from guys they drafted than they did in 2001 when Johnson was called up. At this point the total for this year is 0. They have a lot of catching up to to do. In 2001 they got 57 starts from pitchers they had drafted. They really haven't come close since.
That difference does not constitute a hole but a difference in fundamental assumptions.
I think that is my point. You are operating mostly on bad assumptions. The actual historic record of the draft and prospects does not seem to enter into the equation.
And perhaps one of the poorest fundamental asumptions is that you can measure draft success by how many "stars" you got. The fact is the Twins success in the early 2000's was been built as much on the draft of guys like Pierzynski, LeCroy, Redman, Miller, Romero, Mientikiewicz, and Jones as it was on Hunter and Radke.
(Trombley) was left off the 40 man roster and passed through waivers. Then had to earn his way back to the Twins. He didn't do so until he developed a forkball.
Trombley pitched for the Twins for eight straight years from 1992 to 1999. He may have passed through waivers, but it didn't take him very long to "earn his way back to the Twins."
by TT @ Twinkie Town on May 7, 2007 11:10 AM EDT reply actions
Yeah, right
33 of those starts came from one guy: Brad Radke. The other starts were spot starts by guys who never started again for the organization (Romero became a reliever, Redman was traded, Johnson was sent down never to come up again).
The fact that they have had so few starts from anyone not named Radke in this decade only underscores how poor they were in drafting pitchers in the 90s. In the five years since 2001, the Twins have had 36 starts from players they have drafted not named Radke, 35 of them came from players they drafted in the 00s (mostly Baker and Garza), who are pitching in AAA right now. Rincon had three starts, but he wasn't drafted by the Twins. Balfour had one and Durbin had one.
The actual historic record of the draft and prospects does not seem to enter into the equation.
Yes it does. It's just a matter of definition. When you draft in the top 10 overall, you should get a star-caliber player. And subsequent rounds should yield more players who make it than the Twins got, especially pitchers. The historic record supports my thesis. You just choose to believe your own twisted view of reality, which includes such oddities as your opinion that Al Newman was a better fielder than Greg Gagne, among numerous others.
But I'm through arguing semantics with you. I obviously don't agree with you. And you will never agree with me. I think you disagree with me simply because of the byline on the article and for no other reason.
The point of the article was to highlight how well the Twins have drafted in this decade. The fact that they did not draft as well as they should have considering their draft position in the 90s was a little scene setting to help highlight the good story. And it was excused in the article on the basis of sign ability. So another round of TT's pointless nitpicking has spoiled an otherwise decent article. Good for you.
But go ahead and disagree with this so you can have your last word. You'll have to wait for me to write another article before you have a chance for your unique contribution to this board.
Good Stories
The point of the article was to highlight how well the Twins have drafted in this decade. The fact that they did not draft as well as they should have considering their draft position in the 90s was a little scene setting to help highlight the good story.
Which is why I challenged it - you altered reality to make the current story better with a huge contrast with the past. Unfortunately this is how mythology's get built. The fact is the Twins always have a bunch of young pitching prospects and many of them fail to live up to the projections. The current crop looks to be a good one. But then so did the Banks, Ard, Gasser, Pittman group.
When you draft in the top 10 overall, you should get a star-caliber player.
So what percentage of top 10 draftees in the past fifteen years have actually developed into star-caliber players? The percentage for all first round picks is around 5 to 6 per cent. I believe it is still quite a bit less than 50% for the top ten. So why "should" the Twins do better than that? The test of a draft's success is not the results of one draft choice.
Ritchie and Trombley had success after suffering the humility of being let go by the Twins in the 90s.
I wonder why Mark Redman got left off that list. I guess including him wouldn't set the stage for your story very well huh? Redman was taken off the 40 man roster as well and then won a spot in the rotation.
I'm through arguing semantics with you
We aren't arguing semantics. We are discussion the misleading stage you set for your story.
The point of the article was to highlight how well the Twins have drafted in this decade.
And the reality is that Mauer, Crain and Neshek are the only Twins players from this decade's drafts. If you include 2000, you can add Rabe and Kubel to that list. The rest is just speculation. The same speculation that has always created buzz about young players with great potential.
So another round of TT's pointless nitpicking has spoiled an otherwise decent article
There was no nitpicking here - the central contrast of your story was invented. You compared your hopeful projections of how the last few drafts will turn out with how the drafts of ten years ago actually have played out. But to get sufficient contrast you had to paint a much bleaker picture than the evidence supports. Which does readers a disservice.
by TT @ Twinkie Town on May 7, 2007 9:31 PM EDT reply actions
Perkins
by TT @ Twinkie Town on May 7, 2007 9:34 PM EDT reply actions

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