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Long Live the King

Santana sets new Twins record, strikes out 17 Rangers in eight innings.

When I was little it was the hardest thing for me to watch a game, see a player hit a home run, and then try to understand why he didn't just do that every time he came up to hit.  I saw greatness and being the age I was, couldn't differentiate between the great moment, the great year and of course the even more extraordinary yet exceedingly rare great player.

On Sunday afternoon, Johan Santana trumped all of the above.  He walked through the ordinary, the successful and the historically great with what appeared to be ease; strike after strike, swing after swing and miss after miss.  Texas was afforded 24 outs through eight innings, and 17 of them went down on strikes.  Through five innings it just looked like another fantastic start from Johan, but by the seventh and eighth innings it was a work of art; a dance choreographed by number 57.  The glare, the windup, the sphere hurtling through space and the awkward swing if one was managed at all, Santana's legs crossed as he steps off the mound toward third base.  And all of it preceeded by the trademark ass wiggle.

While great performances similar to this have been wasted before, on Sunday afternoon Santana needed just one run to ensure himself a victory.  Even though it was all he was granted, its culmination was the win.  In the bottom of the second inning, Kevin Millwood left a 3-1 fastball up over the plate and Michael Cuddyer sent it to the seats just left of center field.  The hit would only be Cuddyer's second home run of August, and while the day's results give him a .197/.246/.361 month, it was the moment that mattered.  Santana provided the greatness; Cuddyer's moment solidified what would mean the victory.

A loss by the Indians and another by the sliding Tigers means the Twins are once again six games out of first place and four and a half out of second place.  Unfortunately the other contending teams in the American League aren't content to let the Twins cling to hope, as the surging Mariners (11-5 in August) lead the Twins by eight games in the Wild Card standings.

It's bizarre to still be talking playoffs when your team is one game over evens and hasn't been able to show you any sort of realiable offense.  Suffice it to say the Twins' best hope of reaching the post season (whatever mathimatical hope there is as October's reality is less than probable) lies in catching the Central Division leaders.  I don't think the Twins can do it at this juncture, but I'd love to be proven wrong.

As for Santana's performance, it was one of the best I've ever witnessed in my 27 years. Long live Johan's reign; Long Live the King.

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I'm
IF you take a look around the site, as many of you already have, you'll find a couple posts indicating I was, ahem, rather peeved that Santana did not get his chance, just a CHANCE, at tying the major league record for K's in a game.

I often think, and earlier during that game was one time, that in my hundreds of games attended, I've never seen anything TRULY rare.  I've seen some cool things, but I've never seen a no hitter or anything like that.  I'm jealous of the couple people I know who have, especially considering they don't go to many games.

Santana's performance today was probably the most amazing thing I've seen in person, so far as i can remember, at least in terms of an individual performance.

And I'm angry that the memory of it is diminished by the fact that he wasn't allowed to try to finish it.  If he had tried and failed, had the first pitch of the ninth inning been a pop-up to the shortstop, allowing Johan to tip his cap and cede the hill to Nathan, I would be happy.

But it think it is lousy beyond lousy that he wasn't given a chance, especially considering our distance from the playoff race.

And, unfortunately, that will forever cloud my memory of this special day.

Baseball is great because you cant take a knee or kill the clock. You gotta put the ball over the plate and give the other guy his damn shot E Weaver abridged

by AdamOnFirst on Aug 20, 2007 2:50 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Santana in the HOF
As of today, what do you think the chances are?  I think this is an interesting question. here are some of my thoughts.

I view Hall of Fame pitchers as a continuum stretching from guys who are in primarily due to peak value, to guys who are in primarily because of career value.  Of course, the true inner circle guys are the guys with both the fantastic peaks and the longevity.

Sandy Koufax is the obvious exemplar of one extreme--he's in essentially because of 4 seasons, and we'll name Don Sutton, since he was a teammate of Koufax during his rookie year, as representative of the other extreme.  

Koufax is one of the few starting pitchers in with fewer than 200 wins; he was great for a few years, but even that greatness is somewhat overstated by the conditions under which he pitched.  I doubt a starting pitcher gets in again, at least not in the near future, with under 200 wins.

I say this because another guy on the Koufax end of the continnuum--Pedro Martinez, is just over 200 wins, and its possible he's about done, as he's trying to return from a shoulder surgery.  Let's say he never pitches again; I think it's unquestionable that he'll get into the Hall. But I think he's essentially the modern cutoff point for peak value HOFers--200 wins, and peak just about as great as there has ever been.  

Santana is currently in the midst of a tremendous peak himself--Cy Young awards, best pitcher in baseball, the strikeouts, etc.  But it isn't Pedro's peak.  Pedro had at least 3, and arguably 5 seasons better than anything Santana has done. (See especially 1997, 1999, and 2000).  I am going to take the position that this is what there is with Santana--that he isn't going to reel off any seasons significantly better than what he has already done.  In large part, that's a position that has solidified this season, as he is having another Santana season, essentially his 5th in a row of very similar seasons.  

What this means is that Santana will have to establish himself somewhat further toward the career end than Pedro.  He isn't going to be Don Sutton, obviously--his peak is already better and he has no chance for the innings--but he doesn't have to be. I envision Santana the Hall of Famer as still toward the peak end of the continuum, just not as far toward that end as Pedro.

I think, depending on how many more peak seasons he has, he probably needs to get to 3,000 innings and around 250 wins.  

What are the chances?  

Take a look at Curt Schilling's career, by the way.  There's a guy who I think probably won't get in, but if he does, it will be at least in part due to his post season heroics.  He's been all over the place--much injury time, some great seasons on the level of Santana.  He's right there with 3,200 innings, and 214 wins.  He's tough to judge, because he had a rather late peak and had some good mid career seasons look worse than they are because those were some bad Philly teams. He has that workhorse reputation, and has had some big inning seasons, but has also had quite a few injury years.  Missed out on large parts of his age 27-29 years, which should be peak years, due to injuries (and work stoppages).  

Santana has been remarkably healthy up to now--he'll need that to continue if he wants to make the Hall.  

by Eric in Madison on Aug 20, 2007 10:42 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Santana and Cy Young
A lot of people have written him off as a Cy Young candidate in 2007. But he should get eight more starts when he's on top of his game, as he is every year at this time and beyond. If he wins seven of those, and regains the K and ERA leadership, he could be in line for another Cy.

The reason I bring it up is, if he wins the Cy, his bargaining position improves drastically. It triggers a no-trade clause for the life of his contract. So the Twins have to resign him or risk losing him for draft picks. Ordinarily, I would say a couple of draft picks is adequate compensation for even a star-caliber player. But not in this case. He's worth four first rounders in my book.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Aug 20, 2007 11:27 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The way I read it is
that Santana already has a full no trade clause due to winning the Cy Young last year. Looked it up on Cot's Contracts and it says:
  • full no-trade clause for 2007-08 with top 3 in CY vote in 06 or 07
  • full no-trade clause for 2009 with top 3 in CY vote in 08
I guess I'm not sure how the years work here, but either way, he'll probably be in the top 3 for votes again this year anyway.

Nevertheless, this doesn't mean he can't be traded. If he feels strongly enough about the team's philosophy, he may very well approve a trade to a bigger market team.

Replace Nick Punto.

by rayken on Aug 20, 2007 6:05 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That's weird
'Cause Santana is only signed through 2008, at least according to every media outlet I've read. Sure enough, Cot's must have it wrong. This is the full listing:

# signed extension 2/05, avoided arbitration ($6.8M-$5M)
# 05:$5.5M, 06:$9M, 07:$12M, 08:$13.25M
# may earn award bonuses

    * $25,000 for All-Star selection, 2nd in AL MVP vote or 3rd in CY vote
    * $50,000 each for Gold Glove, AL MVP, LCS MVP or 2nd in CY vote
    * $100,000 each for WS MVP, Cy Young award

# limited no-trade clause 2006-08

    * may block trades to 3 clubs in 05, 8 in 06, 10 in 07 & 12 in 08

    * full no-trade clause for 2007-08 with top 3 in CY vote in 06 or 07

    * full no-trade clause for 2009 with top 3 in CY vote in 08

The last bullet makes no sense because the contract is up at the end of 2008. I think it should read that he has a full no-trade clause in 2007, and he will gain a full no-trade clause in 2008 if he finishes in the top 3 in the Cy Young voting in the 2007 season.

Anyway, the top 3 thing is new to me, and it changes everything. He is likely to end up in the top 3 at this point, I think. Even if he doesn't end up in the top 3, he can block trades to 12 teams in 08, which are not specified. Trading him will be much harder than people like Stark and Neyer claim, though not impossible, as you point out.

The question is, why would he waive it and for whom?

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Aug 20, 2007 6:57 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Santana
Assuming we can't offer him enough dough, I think he would be open to trades to any of the possible buyers, since they would almost have to be big market, big payroll, contending teams in order to have any hopes of extending him after 2008 finishes. Angels, Dodgers, and Mets are the teams I'm hearing most often. Ideally you'd want to try NL teams first so you wouldn't have to face him much until a World Series. I understand those teams also have a good prospect base to trade from, as well as a few young, good position players that could fill some holes for us immediately.
Replace Nick Punto.

by rayken on Aug 20, 2007 10:13 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Cytana, Part 3 (4)
It's remarkable that Johan is not really part of the Cy young discussion this year.  He's actually very close to being a front-runner in most pitching categories.  If he puts together one of his untouchable months, he should win his 3rd Cy Young.

Currently, Santana is 8th in the AL in wins with 13.  He's 2 behing Josh Beckett and John Lackey who both have 15 (5 others have 14).  While I don't think he'll lead the league in wins outright.  He could tie.  -But even if he's 1 or 2 behind the leader, he could still win the Cy.  In my opinion, the number he has to reach here is 19 wins.

Santata is 4th in IP right now with 175.  Sabathia leads everyone by more then 10 with 189, so unless C.C. gets hurt, he'll pitch the most innings.  2nd place is very obtainable for Santana as he is only 3.1 innings behind Joe Blanton.  Again, being the runner-up in a major pitching category certainly doesn't prevent you from winning the Cy.

Santana's 2.88 ERA is 3rd in the AL right now, and unless Dan Haren blows up in a start or two, Johan will be pitching for 2nd place here as well.

191 strikeouts would normally have Johan leading the league at this time if not for Erik Bedard and his 207.  Again, unless Bedard gets hurt, Santana should finish 2nd here as well.

So what does this tell us?  If Santana has a Santana-esque final 6 weeks of the season, he could finish 2nd in Wins, 2nd in IP, 2nd in ERA, and 2ns in K's.  That should add up to 1st in the Cy Young because there are 5 different pitchers holding the top spots in those 4 categories.  Even he doesn't win, Santana definitely deserves to be in the discussion.

-Flip

by Flip27 on Aug 20, 2007 2:33 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Who says he's not in the conversation?
SI.com ran Santana's picture on their main page today as the teaser for a pair of articles on the Cy Young race (he's been replaced by Josh Beckett now, as their highlighting John Heyman's "Who's going to win?" article instead of Jacob Luft's "Can Santana and Webb repeat?"), so it's not like no one is thinking about him.  Heyman has him third, after Beckett and Bedard, and Luft has him as his top honorable mention, after Bedard, Haren, and Putz.

Heyman is putting Beckett first because he has the most wins and will likely make the playoffs.  I hadn't paid enough attention to Heyman's stuff to have much of an opinion on him, but this certainly doesn't help my perception.

by BeefMaster on Aug 20, 2007 2:46 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well
If he's talking about the fact that pitching for a playoff team and winning lots of games makes a huge difference in Cy voting, he sure ain't wrong. If he's saying that those factors make Beckett his personal choice for the award, well then that makes him a dinosaur.

by ravenfly on Aug 20, 2007 3:02 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Lol
If Santana finishes behind Putz, the award should be abolished. =P
Replace Nick Punto.

by rayken on Aug 20, 2007 6:10 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Agreed, but: a sidenote...
I think it's pretty sad that most people's only perception of Putz is him nearly coughing up the All-Star game.  

I'll admit that it was the first time I'd ever seen him pitch, probably along with most people.

by Neil on Aug 20, 2007 6:44 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Santana and the Cy Young
For a great comparison of Santana's and Pedro's numbers, check out this Hardball Times article:
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/who-is-better-pedro-martinez-or-johan-santana/

Also, as of today (08-20-2007) Santana is second in the AL in pitching VORP, and only 0.4 points after Haren.

by PhoenixV on Aug 20, 2007 3:52 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Neat article
That was a fun read.

And as someone who didn't really start following baseball seriously until about 2004, mother of god was Pedro unbelievable. Yeesh. What a pitcher.

by ravenfly on Aug 20, 2007 4:19 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well, I'm sold on one thing
Pedro's a first-ballot hall of famer.  That's absolutely impressive dominance.

by Neil on Aug 20, 2007 6:54 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That article is awesome...
I've argued for Pedro for years with friends who choose Roger/Randy/Maddux as the best of our generation.  I don't even think it's particularly close.  His run is absolutely ridiculous, much more impressive than even Koufax when you look at the era.

In my mind he's the best pitcher in history after Walter Johnson, so for Johan to be mentioned with him is high praise indeed.  We are very lucky to be seeing what we're seeing from Mr. CyTana.  No question.

by djskilbr on Aug 20, 2007 8:06 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Santana
Just another game to prove to the Twins on Santana's worth to the team. I hope that Terry Ryan and others realize how much Santana contributes to this team. Probably the best darn left-handed pitcher we'll ever see in our lifetime as Twins fans. Let's hope that he STAYS in a TWINS uniform!

by twinsfan4ever on Aug 20, 2007 9:26 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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