Torii Hunter: Geez, That Guy's Kind of a....

by Jon Marthaler on Aug 29, 2007 11:41 PM EDT in News

Let's go back and recap a few of Mr. Torii Hunter's highlights, both in this season and in past seasons:

He's been called the "face of the franchise" by the Minneapolis Star Tribune's Jim Souhan and by other knowledgeable commentators.
He spent much of the early part of the season loudly criticizing the Twins for refusing to negotiate a contract extension... and now is himself refusing to do any such thing.
He tried to punch Justin Morneau.
He hit Nick Punto instead.
He very publicly criticized Joe Mauer for being unwilling to play hurt, a matter that perhaps did not necessarily need to be conducted through the local press.

And now, the latest:

He is refusing to attend the groundbreaking ceremony, which at its heart is basically a fan celebration, saying "It's tough going to the groundbreaking and not even knowing if you are going to be here. You'd like to, but it's my day off. I'll just get a massage and hang out."
This while saying "It's up to them [the Twins] to step up," even though evidence seems to show that the Twins are trying to do so and Hunter is refusing.

I admit, the evidence is starting to pile up: maybe Torii Hunter's kind of a jerk.

Your thoughts? Does it even matter? Or am I misinterpreting Hunter's actions, or perhaps selectively remembering the past given that I'm unhappy about the groundbreaking? What do you think?

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Hmm

Trying to hit Morneau: -5
Contract hypocrisy: -3
Criticizing Mauer: -3
Skipping the groundbreaking: -2

Hitting Nick Punto: +18,364

Replace Nick Punto.

by rayken on Aug 29, 2007 11:51 PM EDT reply actions

Numbers

I called some guys at MIT and also a few people I know in the math department at Caltech... and the math checks out.

Somehow, I am not surprised.

by Jon Marthaler on Aug 30, 2007 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions

Anti-Hunter bias

I'm beginning to think LENII really doesn't like Hunter. Why does he feel a need to print everything Hunter says? And why is it usually portrayed in a negative light?

Case in point: this groundbreaking story. The headline reads: "Hunter to skip groundbreaking." Buried in the story is this line: "In addition to Hunter and Morneau, staff ace Johan Santana and closer Joe Nathan also aren't expected to attend today." Why is the headline just about Hunter if three other core players will also skip?

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Aug 30, 2007 12:07 AM EDT reply actions

Just a thought

Why blame LEN3 when Hunter is the one who actually SAYS the stupid stuff that gets printed?

by Neil on Aug 30, 2007 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions

OK

I get that. He should keep his mouth shut. But when he does something that several other high profile players do, he should not be singled out for doing it.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Aug 30, 2007 9:02 AM EDT up reply actions

The StarTrib story

Not sure if this is the story you are referencing but in the StarTrib, the 1st line in the 2nd paragraph states that Morneau won't attend b/c of a prior commitment.

I think it is correct to have Hunter in the title b/c Hunter clearly could go but will not b/c of his contract status and how that will impact whether he plays in the new stadium as a Twin.

by caluofmn on Aug 30, 2007 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions

Santana and Nathan?

No owrd on whether their contract status affected their desire to be there. LEN II never asked them because he didn't want to stir up controversy for anyone but Hunter. Just a theory. Look, this is not the only time LEN III has made a tempest in a teapot about Hunter. There's a pattern here.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Aug 30, 2007 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions

I dunno ...

I think Hunter's in "trouble" for the particular answer he gave, not because he's not going to be there.

It'd be just as easy to say "I know it's a big day, but I'm whipped from the road trip - I really need to get some rest" and then blather on about how "it ain't over yet," etc.

Maybe I misread it, but it looks like Hunter injected the contract angle, not LEN III.

If that's the case, then Hunter comes off as trying to manipulate the situation to make the Twins look bad (and fails miserably, given the press reports that his camp shot down the Twins recent request to negotiate about 2008).

by BD57 on Aug 30, 2007 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions

Tough Call.......

How much are players required to do these days outside of play baseball for the team. Do they need to go out towards the fans before or after the games? Do they need too interact with fans when leaving the stadium.

More and more public appearance sessions seemed to be dictated by the almighty dollar...not doing it for the team or for baseball.

Of course the flip side to this is that in the good ol' days Calvin Griffith would get a player to appear at a car dealer, or be in an ad, and pocket the money or merchandise himself.

The groundbreaking is a tough call. Yes, you can drag out the company stalwarts (Killebrew, Oliva, Carew...Tom Kelly perhaps, they are on the payroll and spend a lot of their time interacting with the public).

Current Twins. Hey, it's a rare day off after a brutal series against Cleveland and four days of day games. If they choose to attend, bravo. If they want some down time or time with family...well, 3 p.m. to 8 p.m. kinda screws up the day with an early wakeup call for double duty on Friday.

Will any of these guys be here in 2010? Can you say that a dozen of the souls will be here and should (maybe) be excited?

I wish players did interact more with fans. But there also seems to be more fans (now 47+ years worth and two million+ for thee season).

The event will be more for the owners, front office, major league Bud ball, governor, mayor, council folks.

Hummm...maybe the fan/taxpayer IS really getting the screw in all this. Millionaire owner gets subsidiz3ed playpen for his children getting an overblown allowance to play a simple game, and those footing the bill and rooting with their hearts for the gang to win have to pay for the honor in more ways than one.

check out Twinkies autograph collection at www.TwinsCards.com

by twintown on Aug 30, 2007 12:18 AM EDT reply actions

I have a hard time disliking Hunter

That's just me. Sure he throws his weight around in the locker room; that's what team leaders do. He would, and practically has, run through a wall to make a play for this team.

LEN3 likes to take everything he says that can be seen as negative and posterize it. At the end of the day (year) I would love to know that Torii is going to be a Twins for years to come.

-Flip

by Flip27 on Aug 30, 2007 1:36 AM EDT reply actions

I've said this countless times

that Hunter probably isn't as nice a guy as he is made out to be. He is a human being after all.

He is outspoken, and anyone that is outspoken is gonna say some dumb things from time to time. But in my mind, there is no excuse for throwing a punch at a fellow employee.

by TMoney on Aug 30, 2007 2:11 AM EDT reply actions

I have 0

I have 0 care for them bringing Torii Hunter back beyond his play on the field. In fact, everything BUT his play on the field makes me NOT want to bring him back. he's a pain in the ass and I'm tired of dumbasses thinking he is the face of the franchise, whatever the hell that means.

He is damn good though, especially this year. WHat a hell of a year he is having.

Baseball is great because you cant take a knee or kill the clock. You gotta put the ball over the plate and give the other guy his damn shot E Weaver abridged

by AdamOnFirst on Aug 30, 2007 2:55 AM EDT reply actions

Worn out

This is the perfect example of an extremely popular who while still performing on the field, is wearing out his welcome with the front office and some of his fans. That aside, he performs, which is what he gets paid to do. How many of us have that one guy/girl at work who is really good at their job but just has a crappy personality or is just a big baby? You would like to see them quit or other but they are just so good at what they do. Hunter is a great player on the field, but his attitude bugs the hell out of me. If he goes to another team I could see him being another AJ type personality.

by WITwinsfan on Aug 30, 2007 8:33 AM EDT reply actions

Wearing out his welcome

Well, I think most of the attitude probably comes from the fact the Twins have struggled all season and that he doesn't have a new contract yet. If he goes out and blows his knee out before the end of the season, how much money does he stand to lose? Coupled with the fact that even if he stays in MN, the owner probably won't be able to pony up the money to keep the other star players. You really can't blame him for being a little testy.

by JBrown2818 on Aug 30, 2007 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions

The Twins aren't paying him THIS year

for NEXT year.

He has a contract.

He's getting paid what he agreed to accept to perform NOW.

IMO, he has no gripes with the Twins that justify whining about next year, etc. THIS year.

by BD57 on Aug 30, 2007 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions

Fans

complain when athletes give interviews that are completely cliched and boring. "I'm just taking it one game at a time." "Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes...it rains." And then when an athlete actually speaks his mind, fans are outraged at his audacity. Which way do you want it?

by wcooley on Aug 30, 2007 10:37 AM EDT reply actions

Correction...

Some fans complain when players are too cliche and some fans complain when a player is an ass. These are not necessarily the same fans, though.

by ubelmann on Aug 30, 2007 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions

But sometimes...

they are. Personally, I'll take Hunter over Joe "Make Mine Vanilla" Mauer anyday.

And if people think Hunter's swing at Morneau is the first time that there has been a fight in the clubhouse...I present the 1970s A's, the 1970s Yankees, the 1980s Mets...all of which won World Titles, by the way. When you get 25 hypermasculine guys in a clubhouse who CARE about their craft sparks will fly sometimes.

by wcooley on Aug 30, 2007 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions

Contract Complaints

I would say that whining for a new contract has definitely become cliche. Also calling yourself underpaid. And complaining that you are putting it on the line to win for a team that isn't matching your effort.

In fact, though he produces a quantity of sound bites, I can't remember anything he's ever said that was original.

And, to boot, I don't think he's worth whatever he's asking. If he really gets $12-15 million, this will be based on his best year yet, which is .300 w/ 30hr. That's a great season, but theres no reason to expect him to do it again. He hasn't done it before. And he doesn't walk, but he does ground into double-plays like its his job. And, he has to be approaching his declining years. The reason that the Yankees aren't winning championships with $200m/yr is that they spend it on 5 year contracts to 35 year old players at higher salaries than the players have ever gotten before. Even if they get one or two good years out of the player, they are still on the hook for players like Giambi and Mussina at exorbitant salaries that they can't live up to.

by snolls on Aug 30, 2007 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions

Other options?

So what do the Twins do then? By not giving Hunter an extension at the beginning of the season probably puts him out of reach. There aren't very many options out there in free agency and I can't see Terry Ryan making a trade for a good youngster. Love him or hate him, I think that without Hunter we will be talking about the hole at CF and 3B next year.

by JBrown2818 on Aug 30, 2007 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions

BOOOOORRRRRRINGGGGG!!!!!!

This is the worst part about having a failure of a season. I keep saying, ONE THREAD devoted to venting about Torii's mouth.

Torii is a mouth. Probably none of us have nor probably ever will call him up on a Friday night and see if he wants to grab a drink or play poker. Who cares whether or not he's a jerk?

by TheMattWilke on Aug 30, 2007 11:00 AM EDT reply actions

Maybe we could keep it to one thread...

...if stuff like this wasn't constantly an issue.

by ubelmann on Aug 30, 2007 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions

Re:

Is it really an issue? Is it Torii's mouth that's the reason why I rejoice any time the Twins muster 4 runs in a game? Or why Gardy hits Punto in the 9th inning when Buscher and Kubel are on the bench? This isn't an issue, this is a distraction from a disappointing season.

Well fine. Let's make this the official thread of things Torii said that hurt everyone's feewings. OK? Done.

by TheMattWilke on Aug 30, 2007 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions

Bogie

"All you owe the public is a good performance." -- Humphrey Bogart.

"Man, the past is a long and twisty road." -- Satchel Paige.

by Firpo Marberry on Aug 31, 2007 12:26 AM EDT reply actions

Ya know

I can't say I think Hunter is way off the mark about anything he has said. If you're the kind of person who likes to give people the benefit of the doubt (I fashion myself as one of those), then I don't think anything he has said necessarily makes him a jerk. Not that I'm certain he isn't -- I just give him the benefit of the doubt.

He says now he doesn't want to negotiate because he doesn't want to be distracted when the race is really heating up (in serious danger of fizzling though it may be). OK, I can see that. He chooses to skip the groundbreaking because he would like a day off and isn't sure how much longer he will be with the Twins. OK, understandable and he has a point. Whether a player attends this kind of event has almost zero to do with how much I will like him, anyway.

The swing at Morneau, the Mauer comments -- he probably should have handled those things better, but they don't seem like that big of a deal to me. I know if I were either of those two, I would consider it ancient history (assuming no more happened than has been reported).

For me, part of it is perhaps a recognition that a strong majority of celebrities just aren't all that likeable. So I guess I kind of have lowered expectations. But nothing that we have found out about Hunter has been so bad to make me think he must be a jerk. Not even close. Obviously my knowledge about him is limited. But the way he strikes me is a guy with charisma who speaks his mind and probably won't be best friends with everyone. But at least he seems like a straight-shooter. Even so, what do I really know?

I save my dislike for celebrities like Tom Cruise and Terrel Owens (of course, even those guys, I can respect their abilities).

by adam @ Twinkie Town on Aug 31, 2007 1:25 PM EDT reply actions