Santana to the Dodgers?

by Jesse on Sep 26, 2007 11:52 AM EDT in News Comment 30 comments

Ben Maller's MLB Rumors over at FoxSports.com speculates that Johan Santana could be going to the Dodgers this winter.

Maller goes so far as to mention who Los Angeles would be sending the Twins in return: Outfielder Matt Kemp and top pitching prospect Clayton Kershaw. Kemp, 22, is having a great season with the Dodgers, hitting .338/.373/.530 in 234 at-bats. Kershaw, 19, has been mowing down hitters for A and AA affiliates, striking out better than 12 batters per 9 in parts of two seasons in the minors.

Is it enough? I certainly don't think so, but I still need to look into it more. Kemp is promising, but has also seen limited time at the major league level. Kershaw is one of the best prospects in all of baseball, but at only 19 has a lot of unanswered questions. Is another pitching prospect what the Twins need?

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The appropriate location

Can't we just get it over with and trade the guy to Boston? Given that all of our pro teams are basically farm teams for Boston at this point, why don't we just start figuring out which Pawtucket Sox products we want in return for Santana, and go from there.

by Jon Marthaler on Sep 26, 2007 12:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

C'mpn now...

I think the Wild got the better deal in the Manny/Petr Kalus deal. Petr has a lot of size and upsize, and manny is too inconsistent for me.

by mbennett on Sep 26, 2007 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

c'mpn

is the new c'mon.

Hitting stores later this month!

by mbennett on Sep 26, 2007 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Trading Santana

I'm not completely opposed to trading Santana for the right price. Andy LaRoche would be another interesting option from the Dodgers. There's still questions about him but as an add on with the other two it could be good. You'd replace the best pithcer in the game with possibly the best pitching prospect in the game. Our rotation would remain decent next year, we'd add an outfielder to replace Torii, and we'd get a legitamate 3B prospect.

by Waldo on Sep 26, 2007 12:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I would

I would cry. I'm just gonna say it.

Baseball is great because you cant take a knee or kill the clock. You gotta put the ball over the plate and give the other guy his damn shot E Weaver abridged

by AdamOnFirst on Sep 26, 2007 1:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re: Crying

There's no crying in baseball.

by Jesse on Sep 26, 2007 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

cry

Me too, and I'd cry if we traded Santana away for two prospects. I'd want at least LaRoche on top of this and possibly one other younger guy...

But we'd have a nice team in 2009, assuming, of course, that Gardy lets the rookies play.

by diehardtwinsfan on Sep 26, 2007 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Throw in

LaRoche and Abreau and we have a deal. Otherwise, it's not enough.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Sep 26, 2007 1:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

From the Outside......

So, I add $100+ million in a contract and get an A-1 starter. But I give up someone who might just be as dominant that I could probably have for the same #100+ million for the next 8 seasons, plus one or two hotshot hitters.

It's a no-brainer.

The Dodgers, or whomever, still has to look at Santana as a pitcher that needs 3 runs by the hometeam to win a game, msot of the time.

Can the Dodgers do that?

Yes, I vote that Johann ends up in the NL. So we don't have to constantly be reminded of him when he faces us at home or on the road.

check out Twinkies autograph collection at www.TwinsCards.com

by twintown on Sep 26, 2007 1:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Remember...

...how the Twins brought in Ortiz and Ponson because they were worried that the rotation didn't feature enough veteran pitchers? Does anyone really think the Twins are going to battle with some combination of Garza, Baker, Liriano, Slowey, Kershaw, Bonser, Perkins, and maybe Silva? Not going to happen.

Plus, if the Twins got rid of Santana, and the payroll that he will take up, they should easily be able to re-sign Hunter, so it seems like if you were going to trade Santana you'd do it for LF/3B help, not CF help. (Kemp could play LF, certainly, but he wouldn't be as valuable there as in CF.)

I certainly wouldn't be surprised if Kemp is available, but this sounds like typical baseless speculation. "Hey, the Dodgers don't like their young players, but they are good, maybe they could get someone in a trade? How about the best pitcher in baseball?" Also, the Twins can let Santana walk at the end of 2008 and get two top prospects in return.

by ubelmann on Sep 26, 2007 2:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Ortiz?

Ponson?

Nope, don't remember. And I never will.

Does anyone really think the Twins are going to battle with some combination of Garza, Baker, Liriano, Slowey, Kershaw, Bonser, Perkins, and maybe Silva?

That's a major problem with the rumor. Everyone in Twins Territory knows that Gardenhire won't go into a season with a rotation with an average age of 24, no matter how talented they might be.

Additionally, if it truly would be Santana for Kershaw and Kemp, you're trading a "sure thing" (i.e., you know what you'll probably get from Santana) for two question marks (i.e., question marks). The Twins can't make a trade of this magnitude, they can't trade one of the best pitchers in baseball without getting an established star in return.

by Jesse on Sep 26, 2007 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

How about

Santana for Laroche, Kemp, Abreau and Broxton? That's about what it would take to dry my tears. I'm not saying it would happen, but if it did (and the Twins signed Silva back), the Twins could be pretty good next year.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Sep 26, 2007 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Two top prospects?

Keep in mind that compensation for 'A' level free agents has changed -- if the signing team isn't in the top 15 in the league, the signing team gives up its second round pick, plus the team losing the free agent gets a sandwich pick in between the first and second rounds.

The Dodgers currently have the 16th best record in MLB.

The Twins are good at scouting, but the chance of getting 'top' prospects out of a sandwich pick and a mid-round 2nd rounder don't thrill me.

MLB is slowly changing to make Moneyball strategies like this less valuable.

by dwintheiser on Sep 26, 2007 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not this year

I don't get this. What relevance does the Dodger's position in the 2008 draft have? If he signs with the Dodgers after the 2008 year, the draft compensation would be awarded in the 2009 draft. If the Twins trade him this offseason, they would not be comparing their return with draft compensation. They have leverage 'till the end of July.

The going rate for a guy of his caliber is at least three quality players. Colon returned the Expos three top prospects, for example.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Sep 26, 2007 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This trade

This has been pretty much the standard Santana deal talked about in various places throughout the season. Kershaw/Kemp/LaRoche. Nothing new, except for the fact that LaRoche is left out, which might be more realistic to get the Dodgers to bite. And I highly doubt the two picks they would get from letting him walk would end up being as good as Kemp/Kershaw.

Replace Nick Punto.

by rayken on Sep 26, 2007 4:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Cubs?

If he goes this winter, I'd hope for a trade with the Cubs of Scott Moore (3B), Matt Murton (LF or DH), and Felix Pie (CF). If he goes, it has to fill not some, but all holes. And the Cubs would probably be willing and able to do that for the Twins with the chance of a Santana/Zambrano 1-2 punch for 08.

by TheMattWilke on Sep 26, 2007 4:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Moore traded

I believe the Cubs already traded Moore.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Sep 26, 2007 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe...

Although pitchers have to do a mandatory stint on the DL when entering the Cubs organization. I'm not sure Santana would be willing to do that.

Isn't Scott Moore with Baltimore now though? Maybe I'm mistaken. Also, while Murton isn't bad, I'm not a big fan of Pie. My first impression is that this package isn't really tempting--if I had to take this package or the rumored Dodger package, I'm siding with LA.

by Jesse on Sep 26, 2007 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

don't know if that one happens ...

but I expect some sort of trade of Santana to happen. I don't like it, but I do expect it.

The Twins don't have enough offense to win WITH Santana; there's no indication they're going to spend the kind of $$$ required to sign a "Sure to help" free agent; and the less expensive free agents this year carry significant risk & wouldn't bring enough to the table to make a significant difference anyway.

Significantly upgrading the lineup is going to require trading talent. Giving up offense when you're short offense doesn't make much sense, so you'd expect the Twins to look to deal pitching.

And the pitching which has the chance to bring a significant offensive return is named "Santana" and "Nathan."

by BD57 on Sep 26, 2007 7:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

dot dot dot

I wouldnt put a lot of stock in any Ben Maller rumours. He is a guy that seems to make up things or pick up on very obscure wacky trade rumours

I love his radio show though

by DedicatedFollowerOfFashion on Sep 26, 2007 8:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

KFFL

This is Matt Kemp's fantasy update via KFFL today:

"Bill Plaschke, of the Los Angeles Times, reports Los Angeles Dodgers general manager Ned Colletti is more open to trading some of the team's younger players in order to acquire veterans this offseason, according to sources with the team. The player most mentioned to be moved is OF Matt Kemp. They feel the team needs more leadership from veterans if they are to contend."

Further evidence that the Dodgers are pretty much the closest thing to a perfect trading partner for Santana.

Replace Nick Punto.

by rayken on Sep 26, 2007 9:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Well

I think Kemp, LaRoche, and Kershaw is about as good as its going to get, and its pretty good.

i don't really advocate trading Santana, but this provides some good cheap talent at positions of need. Contrary to the comment above, it actually allows you to let Hunter go, and provides the payroll flexibility to go after another big bat.

by Eric in Madison on Sep 26, 2007 9:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Oh, and another thing

Nothing is worse than the veterans in LA. They need to shut up and quit complaining about the young players. Kemp and Loney have been their best players this month, but the vets and the lapdog media still somehow blame them for the team's demise.

Seriously, I don't blame Kemp if he's irritated. Veteran leadership my ass.

by Eric in Madison on Sep 26, 2007 9:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

85% of the way there

This is an interesting deal. I'm not willing to do it--it's not enough and certainly not enough NL talent! I want people I know can still cut it in the AL.

Three reasons:

1.I fear he will break and not be any good to us so we need to unload him while hot

He deserves another shot with a team that can win it all (he certainly has a better shot in the NL West than the AL Central but really the Dodgers?)
I want to see Santana/Liriano again

Dear Firpo, looks like my stock is fine.

by MNPundit on Sep 26, 2007 10:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Trade Santana to the Mets...

for David Wright and Carlos Beltran... Hey! I can dream!

-Flip

by Flip27 on Sep 26, 2007 11:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Maybe the Twins trade Santana

not to be good next year but for prospects that will make them solid in 09 and 010 for the new ballpark.

I can see it now, everyone lights torches and grabs pitchforks next spring but then after maybe just missing the playoffs in 09 all is forgiven as the team moves into the new ballpark. Mauer and Morneau leading a team of talented young players.

I don't know enough to say who the Twins could go for to accomplish this I 'm just saying I can see the Twins choosing to let go of players who they can't keep and reloading for seasons down the road.

by caluofmn on Sep 26, 2007 11:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Personally...

I don't think the Twins even touch that trade unless BOTH one of Ethier/Laroche AND Meloan are thrown in. And I still might not do it myself.

We can win it all WITH Santana. I've said it many times, but it's not like we have holes all over the place. Next year we have Cisco back, and our rotation should be the best in baseball with Garza/Baker/Slowey. And our bullpen should also be nasty, especially with Crain returning, and Perkins back, plus possibly Boof in the pen. That's a LOT of positives.

If we re-sign Hunter, we are TWO bats short; at 3b and DH. We can live with our options at 2b as a 9-hole hitter and with good defense/speed. That's fine. We just need to find TWO bats with our excess trading chips (Rincon/Blackburn or Boof/one other prospect). Sorry, but I think that's doable. I'm not about to throw away what could be the best 1-2-3 combo in the history of the game (Santana/Liriano/Garza) if we can at ALL avoid it.

by djskilbr on Sep 27, 2007 3:00 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I agree with you...

...but in this case I think the Twins will have to mortgage the future or at least the 2009-2010 or so years to win it all next year.

I am willing to do that, but is the management?

Dear Firpo, looks like my stock is fine.

by MNPundit on Sep 27, 2007 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It should be fun to see...

...what type of GM Mr. Smith is going to be. Lots of decisions coming up. Hopefully, he is aware as everyone else in the baseball world that you either sign Santana in the next couple months or move him.

Personally, I hope he signs Santana and Silva which should give us a wonderful 2008.

by roger on Sep 29, 2007 8:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs