Mets Win: Santana to be Traded
Local sources are now confirming what the USA Today began reporting, that the New York Mets will have a maximum of a three-day window with which to negotiate a contract extension with Johan Santana. Additionally, sources concur on what players will be involved in the transaction; according to Bob Nightengale, coming to Minnesota would be outfielder Carlos Gomez, and pitchers Phil Humber, Deolis Guerra and Kevin Mulvey. If this these are indeed the players involved, they're the same players discussed here, based off Joe Christensen's article at the Star Tribune.
While it's possible that the Mets can't work out an extension, at this juncture that doesn't seem likely.
For New York reaction, jump over to AmazinAvenue, SBNation's blog for the Mets.
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Pay
by WITwinsfan on Jan 29, 2008 4:26 PM EST 0 recs
I will
I guess Bill Smith really didn't want Santana going to the AL.
by AdamOnFirst on Jan 29, 2008 4:31 PM EST 0 recs
Yikes
I imagine Gomez will get a chance to platoon with Pridie in center, which is a combination that excites me, especially after Seth's interview with BA editor John Manuel.
I think Guerra and Mulvey are the best pitching prospects discussed besides Masterson (if Hughes and Lester are not prospects). Humber is a question mark, but he will be two years removed from Tommy John, so he could make a big improvement and help out this year.
But I'm disappointed that the Twins didn't get a pitcher for the short term or a position player for their system. This improves their system, but not as much as either rumored Sox offer, IMO.
by cmathewson on Jan 29, 2008 4:32 PM EST 0 recs
Way
Without Martinez, this deal is bogus. Only one potential future all star instead of a couple in the other deals. The best talent is far from the majors. The two main pitchers are backend filler and middle stuff, the kind of guys we're already swimming in anyway.
I'm very very very unhappy with this. This better be wrong about the players involved (very possible, the only guy to break the story was the USA today, not exactly the pinnacle of accuracy) or I better hear a damn good explination on why the Twins are certain that Gomez is a total stud or something.
by AdamOnFirst on
Jan 29, 2008 4:53 PM EST
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I gotta blieve
by cmathewson on Jan 29, 2008 4:37 PM EST 0 recs
Keep the faith CMath
by Victor on
Jan 29, 2008 4:48 PM EST
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Right.
by Jon Marthaler on
Jan 29, 2008 4:55 PM EST
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ow
by wildblueyonder on Jan 29, 2008 4:40 PM EST 0 recs
I hate this deal
Gomez may be fast but, with the way he hits, he better play a great defensive cf.
Why is Guerra rated highly? He's young but I don't see it in the numbers. Must need a scout's eye-view to see it, I suppose
Humber and Mulvey are, meh. #4 or #5 starters.
Qunatity, not quality, it seems to me.
by Victor on Jan 29, 2008 4:43 PM EST 0 recs
Those were
There could be more to this one, I haven't found anything confirming this locally yet, and the Mets still need to negotiate a contract with Johan. I'm hoping there's more to this...but I won't be surprised if there isn't.
Bill Smith was in a very difficult position here. If this is indeed the deal, chances are it was the best deal still on the table.
by Jesse on
Jan 29, 2008 4:49 PM EST
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Worth Noting
by Victor on
Jan 29, 2008 5:18 PM EST
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Does this mean?
by Chaddens on Jan 29, 2008 4:46 PM EST 0 recs
and...
by wildblueyonder on Jan 29, 2008 4:48 PM EST 0 recs
LOL
by twinstalker on
Jan 29, 2008 7:08 PM EST
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Boy oh boy...
Also, am I looking at the stats incorrectly, or did we just get the second coming of Cristian Guzman to play center field?
by Jon Marthaler on Jan 29, 2008 4:49 PM EST 0 recs
Polling
by Jon Marthaler on
Jan 29, 2008 4:51 PM EST
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No, your eyes work fine
He's very athletic, supposed to have "great tools", but the bat is missing.
by Jesse on
Jan 29, 2008 4:53 PM EST
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Tools
by Victor on
Jan 29, 2008 5:20 PM EST
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That's crap
by twinstalker on
Jan 29, 2008 7:09 PM EST
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Evaluating Mets prospects
by cmathewson on
Jan 29, 2008 4:57 PM EST
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Actually
by Victor on
Jan 29, 2008 5:24 PM EST
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Let's play Player X, Player Y
Age:20 Level:AA PA:483 AB:430 H:121 2B:24 3B:8 HR:7 BB:27 SO:97 .281/.346/.423/.769
Player Y
Age:21 Level:AA PA:550 AB:497 H:135 2B:36 3B:2 HR:9 BB:38 SO:89 .272/.318/.406/.724
Player X is our new #2 prospect. Player Y? Anagram time: Pootvlurrt Flufee.
Many people on this list rate our top shortstop prospect the best position player in the system. The community overall rates him the number 3 prospect in the system. And he doesn't have the speed, athleticism or range of Gomez. If Flufee is the best position player in the system prior to this deal, he's second best now.
And nobody would rate Guerra behind any pitcher in the system. So there you have it: The numebr 1 and number 2 prospects in the system right now are Guerra and Gomez.
As for Humber and Mulvey: They're about what you can expect for the two draft picks we would get in any free agent deal. They're just closer to the majors.
Hey, I'm trying to stay positive. Work with me.
by cmathewson on
Jan 29, 2008 5:50 PM EST
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I don't have access to a lot of stats...
by roger on
Jan 29, 2008 5:57 PM EST
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Your boy
Age:22 Level:AA PA:595 AB:536 H:153 2B:16 3B:6 HR:2 BB:40 SO:78 .285/.333/.349/.682
It's actually worse that the half year he spent there as a 21 year old.
by cmathewson on
Jan 29, 2008 6:01 PM EST
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I thought I remembered...
by roger on
Jan 29, 2008 6:07 PM EST
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Gomez vs. Span
Span AA season (22)
SB: 23 CS: 11
Gomez AA season (20)
SB: 41 CS: 9
by cmathewson on
Jan 29, 2008 7:58 PM EST
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expectations
So I guess they did "meet my expectations" in that sense.
Though I think it says more about our system.
by adam on
Jan 29, 2008 6:31 PM EST
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At least I can still root for Santana
I'm not sure I couldn't get comfortable with this package, but I wish there was another position player or two added in, even if it wasn't studs. Just so we aren't back to carrying 15 potential #3 pitchers on our 40 man roster.
I do like Gomez better than Ellsbury.
I can see the argument that Guerra has a higher ceiling than Lester (not saying he's a better pickup, just a better chance of becoming a #1)
And Humber and Mulvey gives us MLB ready pitchers, just not of the quality we were looking for. Maybe this allows us to use Baker/Bonser/Slowey to get us value in trade (3B, SS, etc.)
by snolls on Jan 29, 2008 4:51 PM EST 0 recs
Yuck
by TStahr on Jan 29, 2008 4:52 PM EST 0 recs
Mets fan here
by Gil the Pill on Jan 29, 2008 4:53 PM EST 0 recs
Welcome back
by Jesse on
Jan 29, 2008 4:54 PM EST
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Read the Manuel Q&A
by cmathewson on
Jan 29, 2008 4:58 PM EST
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Manuel
"Hughes & Lester & Pelfrey aren't eligible; pretty much everyone else offered, other than Kalish, Humber, Mulvey and Marquez, would have ranked ahead of Blackburn [his top rated guy in the system] . . . I am a Carlos Gomez guy, big-time tools, exciting player, worth getting in my mind."
So Guerra and Gomez would be #1 and #2 in the system. I rate Humber on a par with Bonser two years ago, and Mulvey on a par with Slowey last year (with more ground balls and fewer HRs).
That's not a horrible deal. It's not as good as rumored, but who knows what was actually offered versus what was discussed? And who knows how the Santana contract discussions went. Perhaps only the Mets said they'd pay the 6 year and $150 million extension. So Santana said, "Take what the Mets are offering or wait for me to go to free agency."
by cmathewson on
Jan 29, 2008 5:18 PM EST
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Mets' fans' happiness
by twinstalker on
Jan 29, 2008 7:13 PM EST
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please no
At least it's over?
These guys could prove me wrong?
Yeah, looking for some kind of soothing balm here.
Gomez doesn't excite me. We already have a Pridie. I guess Gomez has more upside, but I really am no more enthused about him than I am Pridie. Really, it might as well have been Church if you ask me (please let it not be that insisting on Gomez cost us F-Mart!!!)
Uh, I guess it turns out John Manuel is high on Gomez, so there's something...
by adam on Jan 29, 2008 4:53 PM EST 0 recs
forgot to mention
by Gil the Pill on Jan 29, 2008 4:57 PM EST 0 recs
Humber, yes, Mulvey, no
by cmathewson on
Jan 29, 2008 5:00 PM EST
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Gomez
http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/stats/individual_stats_player.jsp?c_id=nym&playerID=460576
by Gil the Pill on Jan 29, 2008 4:59 PM EST 0 recs
What the hell is wrong with our Management?
Strib Link: http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/14790236.html
by MNPundit on Jan 29, 2008 5:05 PM EST 0 recs
NL
by WITwinsfan on Jan 29, 2008 5:08 PM EST 0 recs
Bill Smith Sucks
So then, combining the pieces in the Santana deal, the Guzman deal, the Young deal and the team as it stands right now, the Twins are the best damn AAA team in the majors + Cuddyer, Mauer and Morneau. Might as well trade Nathan for a high A reliever and another AA catcher. Can't have too many of those!
None of these guys were on the "want list" with the Mets. That's great. Way to go Bill! You've done a bang-up job here.
If this really happens like this, I'm done. First they blow the Hunter thing, now this? Whatever.
by neide on Jan 29, 2008 5:11 PM EST 0 recs
Done?
by WITwinsfan on
Jan 29, 2008 5:12 PM EST
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Hunter
by ravenfly on
Jan 29, 2008 5:13 PM EST
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Not the point
by neide on
Jan 29, 2008 5:17 PM EST
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Ok...
How did he blunder notiating a new deal? He offered Johan five years, $100 million...that's a pretty good compromise from six, $140. I wouldn't be signing him for a six or seven year deal unless they were option years controlled by the club.
At the end of the day, the Mets offer was the only one still on the table. Santana asked the Twins to make up their mind and make a decision. They did.
by Jesse on
Jan 29, 2008 5:25 PM EST
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Wrong guy
However, this is what you get when you wait too long without the balls to step up to the plate with the cash. Bill Smith fails Kenny Rogers' School of Gambling.
by neide on
Jan 29, 2008 5:27 PM EST
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Hahaha
by Jesse on
Jan 29, 2008 5:29 PM EST
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option B
I'm sorry but the Twins made a lot of good moves for the short term that just went for naught. I thought they had a chance next season with Johan if we got a break with a young starting pitcher next season.
by doofus04 on
Jan 29, 2008 8:08 PM EST
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Yes
by cmathewson on
Jan 29, 2008 8:14 PM EST
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Can I just say
Which you are. In a good way.
by Jesse on
Jan 29, 2008 5:15 PM EST
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I am a dick
Gomez better live up to "potential" in a hurry, Humber had damn well be back from TJ and Guerra and Mulvey need to be regulars in Rochester by the end of the year to show that this even comes close to Hughes, Cabrera and Chamberlain or Lester, Crisp and whoever else Boston was willing to add.
by neide on
Jan 29, 2008 5:23 PM EST
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We don't know
by cmathewson on
Jan 29, 2008 5:56 PM EST
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Okay
by neide on
Jan 29, 2008 5:59 PM EST
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No
by cmathewson on
Jan 29, 2008 8:16 PM EST
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I would assume...
by Neil on
Jan 29, 2008 6:16 PM EST
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Tell us how you really feel
by cmathewson on
Jan 29, 2008 8:00 PM EST
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GM concerns
All I want to know is that Ryan signed off on this deal. Then I'll be, if not happy, at least placated.
by Jon Marthaler on Jan 29, 2008 5:12 PM EST 0 recs
If Terry Ryan had been the point man on this deal
by cmathewson on
Jan 29, 2008 8:00 PM EST
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I'm sick
Grrrrrrr!
by TheMattWilke on Jan 29, 2008 5:12 PM EST 0 recs
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh
Frustration. Let's hope the scouts see something that we don't.
by ravenfly on Jan 29, 2008 5:14 PM EST 0 recs
It is called an impossible situation...
...NO!
...Will you continue to talk about an extension and allow us to trade you in July if we cannot work anything out?
...NO!
...OH?
...Mr. Red Sox GM, are your two deals still on the table?
...NO, now that the Yankees are out of it.
...OK!
...Mr. Mets GM, what will you give us, PLEASE?
Don't Blame Bill Smith or the Twins management on this one. Maybe blame them for not signing him a year or two ago...but not for what is happening now.
by roger on Jan 29, 2008 5:14 PM EST 0 recs
Agreed 100%
The intelligent options were exhausted. That doesn't mean we should be happy, but we really can't blame Smith for doing what he had to do.
by Jesse on
Jan 29, 2008 5:18 PM EST
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Why were the intelligent options exhausted?
by MNPundit on
Jan 29, 2008 6:00 PM EST
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By intelligent
I'm not sure whether this is better than keeping Johan for a year and picking up two draft picks, but the result is undoubtedly that nobody got what they wanted...except the Mets. And the Yankees and Red Sox, but keeping Santana from the Red Sox and Yankees.
I'm not happy with the results, but I do believe that if THIS is the deal, that it was the best deal available.
by Jesse on
Jan 29, 2008 6:04 PM EST
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well yeah
by doofus04 on
Jan 29, 2008 8:11 PM EST
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Yup
by neide on
Jan 29, 2008 5:25 PM EST
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This is not good
There is a non-zero chance here that the Twins got no players who will ever be average major leaguers. Seriously. Gomez may very well never learn to hit, and Guerra is so far away and TINSTAPP and such, that it might really work out that way.
There's risk in any deal, but this deal strikes me as all risk, with very limited reward. What's Gomez's best case? Given that none of these guys have anything resembling pristine performance records, the risk is just too high.
by Eric in Madison on Jan 29, 2008 5:20 PM EST 0 recs
Consoling myself
by Victor on Jan 29, 2008 5:36 PM EST 0 recs
Dear Bill Smith
Inappropriately Yours,
MNPundit
by MNPundit on Jan 29, 2008 5:44 PM EST 0 recs
Peter Gammons
Gomez is OK. Mulvey is mediocre. Humber is a former prospect turned bust (not sure he is that bad, but). Guerra is a decent prospect at A ball. None is a top-flight prospect.
Basically his reaction was similar to ours here - the Twins got considerably less than they could have a month ago.
by Victor on Jan 29, 2008 6:01 PM EST 0 recs
Before we all write off Mulvey...
by roger on Jan 29, 2008 6:11 PM EST 0 recs
Too Bad
Liriano vs Santana
Hughes vs Chamberlain
Baker/Blackburn vs Wang
Slowey vs Kennedy
by caseintheface on Jan 29, 200


