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Mets Win: Santana to be Traded

Twinkietown_tiny by Jesse on in News

From the USA Today

From LEN III

Local sources are now confirming what the USA Today began reporting, that the New York Mets will have a maximum of a three-day window with which to negotiate a contract extension with Johan Santana. Additionally, sources concur on what players will be involved in the transaction; according to Bob Nightengale, coming to Minnesota would be outfielder Carlos Gomez, and pitchers Phil Humber, Deolis Guerra and Kevin Mulvey. If this these are indeed the players involved, they're the same players discussed here, based off Joe Christensen's article at the Star Tribune.

While it's possible that the Mets can't work out an extension, at this juncture that doesn't seem likely.

For New York reaction, jump over to AmazinAvenue, SBNation's blog for the Mets.

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Pay
If this is true the question is, will the Mets pay what he is looking for? If not, what then?

by WITwinsfan on Jan 29, 2008 4:26 PM EST   0 recs

I will
I will be furious if this is the offer we landed on.  This is way way way way way way way worse than the Yankees or Sox offer.  No Martinez?  What a crock!  This deal will be a terrible bust unless Gomez learns to hit like Alex Rios like some think he may be able to and Guerra becomes an ace.

I guess Bill Smith really didn't want Santana going to the AL.

Baseball is great because you cant take a knee or kill the clock. You gotta put the ball over the plate and give the other guy his damn shot E Weaver abridged

by AdamOnFirst on Jan 29, 2008 4:31 PM EST   0 recs

Yikes
That's the worst package mentioned in any of these rumors. Still, it's better than two draft picks and a season of distractions.

I imagine Gomez will get a chance to platoon with Pridie in center, which is a combination that excites me, especially after Seth's interview with BA editor John Manuel.

I think Guerra and Mulvey are the best pitching prospects discussed besides Masterson (if Hughes and Lester are not prospects). Humber is a question mark, but he will be two years removed from Tommy John, so he could make a big improvement and help out this year.

But I'm disappointed that the Twins didn't get a pitcher for the short term or a position player for their system. This improves their system, but not as much as either rumored Sox offer, IMO.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Jan 29, 2008 4:32 PM EST   0 recs

Way
Way worse than the Yankees package too.  Mulvey and Humber are both worse than Lester and Masterson, and about as good as Jeff Marquez, but not comign with Phil Huhges.  If we're LUCKY Gomez will be a little better than Cabrera or Crisp.  Guerra is a long way away and not a clear cut top prospect, probably like a Manship or Robertson (maybe a bit more upside).

Without Martinez, this deal is bogus.  Only one potential future all star instead of a couple in the other deals.  The best talent is far from the majors.  The two main pitchers are backend filler and middle stuff, the kind of guys we're already swimming in anyway.

I'm very very very unhappy with this.  This better be wrong about the players involved (very possible, the only guy to break the story was the USA today, not exactly the pinnacle of accuracy) or I better hear a damn good explination on why the Twins are certain that Gomez is a total stud or something.

Baseball is great because you cant take a knee or kill the clock. You gotta put the ball over the plate and give the other guy his damn shot E Weaver abridged

by AdamOnFirst on Jan 29, 2008 4:53 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

I gotta blieve
There's more to this deal than USAToday is reporting. If it was this deal plus Martinez, then yeas, it's fine. But without Martinez, the Sox deal is way better.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Jan 29, 2008 4:37 PM EST   0 recs

Keep the faith CMath
Maybe there's more.  We can hold out hope, but I suspect it will be in vain. I think the Twins got screwed. Gomez is supposed to be the centerpiece? Ugh.
These largely incoherent thoughts were hurriedly scribbled down

by Victor on Jan 29, 2008 4:48 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Right.
Got screwed? No.  Screwed up? Possibly.

by Jon Marthaler on Jan 29, 2008 4:55 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

ow
The 4 guys mentioned wouldnt even be in the top 10 of the yankees or redsox farms. Its looking like the wins have been burned.

by wildblueyonder on Jan 29, 2008 4:40 PM EST   0 recs

I hate this deal
Santana for a clutch of middling prospects.  Not one of these guys is a legitimate blue chip prospect.  Conceivably, all of them could amount to very little.

Gomez may be fast but, with the way he hits, he better play a great defensive cf.

Why is Guerra rated highly?  He's young but I don't see it in the numbers. Must need a scout's eye-view to see it, I suppose

Humber and Mulvey are, meh.  #4 or #5 starters.

Qunatity, not quality, it seems to me.

These largely incoherent thoughts were hurriedly scribbled down

by Victor on Jan 29, 2008 4:43 PM EST   0 recs

Those were
my thoughts as well, and always have been in regards to the Mets offer(s).  I always preferred one of the packages from Boston.

There could be more to this one, I haven't found anything confirming this locally yet, and the Mets still need to negotiate a contract with Johan.  I'm hoping there's more to this...but I won't be surprised if there isn't.

Bill Smith was in a very difficult position here.  If this is indeed the deal, chances are it was the best deal still on the table.

by Jesse on Jan 29, 2008 4:49 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Worth Noting
As you say, Jesse, we do not know, and probably never will (unles Hank Steinbrenner runs his mouth again, which is a distinct possibility I suppose) what the other offers really were and whether they might have been preferable, in our eyes, to the Carlos Gomez pupu platter . Yet, I can only imagine that they would be preferable.
These largely incoherent thoughts were hurriedly scribbled down

by Victor on Jan 29, 2008 5:18 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Does this mean?
Does this mean the Twins are giving up on this season or not?  Is a Joe Nathan trade next or do they wait until the trade deadline to deal him to the highest bidder?  

by Chaddens on Jan 29, 2008 4:46 PM EST   0 recs

and...
i'd take lester, lowrie and crisp in a heartbeat now over those 4...like damn.

by wildblueyonder on Jan 29, 2008 4:48 PM EST   0 recs

LOL
I have to agree...and that includes Masterson, too, right?
You can't dust for vomit.

by twinstalker on Jan 29, 2008 7:08 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Boy oh boy...
It's a good thing we've managed to stock a depleted farm system with... more young pitching.  Rochester should continue to have the best pitching staff in Triple A for the next five years.  Hooray Red Wings!

Also, am I looking at the stats incorrectly, or did we just get the second coming of Cristian Guzman to play center field?

by Jon Marthaler on Jan 29, 2008 4:49 PM EST   0 recs

Polling
Though I think I know what the results would be... Jesse, it might be nice to have a poll we can all vote on here ("Happy with the rumored trade?")

by Jon Marthaler on Jan 29, 2008 4:51 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

No, your eyes work fine
Gomez doesn't have a history as a strong hitter, and no matter how you slice it doesn't project to be hitting higher than eighth or ninth.

He's very athletic, supposed to have "great tools", but the bat is missing.

by Jesse on Jan 29, 2008 4:53 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Tools
I love guys with all the tools except the hitting part.  Love those guys.
These largely incoherent thoughts were hurriedly scribbled down

by Victor on Jan 29, 2008 5:20 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

That's crap
Obviously Gomez is fast and therefore the leadoff guy.  Just ask Gardentool.  See?  I told you.
You can't dust for vomit.

by twinstalker on Jan 29, 2008 7:09 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Evaluating Mets prospects
As you know, the Mets rush their prospects based on tools and pay little attention to numbers. Gomez is the paradigm case. He has put up OK numbers at every level, but good numbers for his age. If you want the optimistic view, read the Q&A of John Manual. He thinks Gomez is a great prospect. Also, he rates all but one of these guys ahead of everyone in the Twins system right now.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Jan 29, 2008 4:57 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Actually
he rates both Mulvey and Humber below Blackburn. He likes Gomez because of his athleticism.  I guess we just hope that one of these years Gomez learns to hit and stops striking out so much.
These largely incoherent thoughts were hurriedly scribbled down

by Victor on Jan 29, 2008 5:24 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Let's play Player X, Player Y
Player X
Age:20 Level:AA PA:483 AB:430 H:121 2B:24 3B:8 HR:7 BB:27 SO:97 .281/.346/.423/.769

Player Y
Age:21 Level:AA PA:550 AB:497 H:135 2B:36 3B:2 HR:9 BB:38 SO:89 .272/.318/.406/.724

Player X is our new #2 prospect. Player Y? Anagram time: Pootvlurrt Flufee.

Many people on this list rate our top shortstop prospect the best position player in the system. The community overall rates him the number 3 prospect in the system. And he doesn't have the speed, athleticism or range of Gomez. If Flufee is the best position player in the system prior to this deal, he's second best now.

And nobody would rate Guerra behind any pitcher in the system. So there you have it: The numebr 1 and number 2 prospects in the system right now are Guerra and Gomez.

As for Humber and Mulvey: They're about what you can expect for the two draft picks we would get in any free agent deal. They're just closer to the majors.

Hey, I'm trying to stay positive. Work with me.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Jan 29, 2008 5:50 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

I don't have access to a lot of stats...
...here in the desert, but would love to see you really have some fun.  Add to that list above, a certain centerfielder who played at New Britain in 2006.  He would have been a bit older, but if I recall his numbers would have been better as well.  Oh, and I think he believes he will surprise everyone and be the starting centerfielder on opening day.  

by roger on Jan 29, 2008 5:57 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Your boy
Nards Pane:

Age:22 Level:AA PA:595 AB:536 H:153 2B:16 3B:6 HR:2 BB:40 SO:78 .285/.333/.349/.682

It's actually worse that the half year he spent there as a 21 year old.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Jan 29, 2008 6:01 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

I thought I remembered...
...that his average was as good.  But there wasn't a lot of power.  Will you agree that he believes he will be the Twins starting center fielder?  Loved Seth's comments about him, how he reads these blogs and is motivated by so many people saying he sucks!  Personally, I would love to see him learn how to use his tremendous speed.  Expect that Gomez may be a Span type of player who uses his speed very well...turning a lot of singles into doubles and some doubles into triples.

by roger on Jan 29, 2008 6:07 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Gomez vs. Span
I'd say Gomez is heads and shoulders better than Span. But they both must use their speed to be affective. The main differences are power, base stealing and defense. Gomez is said to be an excellent defender. According to Manuel, Span struggles with routes on balls and jumps on steals.

Span AA season (22)
SB: 23    CS: 11   

Gomez AA season (20)
SB: 41    CS: 9

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Jan 29, 2008 7:58 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

expectations
Well I defintely was expecting that the Twins would get either a major league bat or a bat prospect that would be the best in our system.

So I guess they did "meet my expectations" in that sense.

Though I think it says more about our system.

by adam on Jan 29, 2008 6:31 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

At least I can still root for Santana
And that's worth a lot to me personally.

I'm not sure I couldn't get comfortable with this package, but I wish there was another position player or two added in, even if it wasn't studs. Just so we aren't back to carrying 15 potential #3 pitchers on our 40 man roster.

I do like Gomez better than Ellsbury.
I can see the argument that Guerra has a higher ceiling than Lester (not saying he's a better pickup, just a better chance of becoming a #1)
And Humber and Mulvey gives us MLB ready pitchers, just not of the quality we were looking for. Maybe this allows us to use Baker/Bonser/Slowey to get us value in trade (3B, SS, etc.)

by snolls on Jan 29, 2008 4:51 PM EST   0 recs

Yuck
I wasn't a huge fan of the Red Sox package(s) but either of those packages beats this one hands-down.  A slew of middling players for the best pitcher in the game?

by TStahr on Jan 29, 2008 4:52 PM EST   0 recs

Mets fan here
Humber and Mulvey are #3 type pitchers possibly better. Guerra could be A star if his projections pan out. Gomes is faster then reyes for sure and has a great glove, Another year in AAA could make Gomez a star also. Not all mets fans are happy with this trade either.

by Gil the Pill on Jan 29, 2008 4:53 PM EST   0 recs

Welcome back
Do you have any reports about scouts being impressed with Gomez's ability to hit?  Because right now I'm stumped at his production from the dish.

by Jesse on Jan 29, 2008 4:54 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Read the Manuel Q&A
He is very impressed with Gomez.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Jan 29, 2008 4:58 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Manuel
Here's the quote:

"Hughes & Lester & Pelfrey aren't eligible; pretty much everyone else offered, other than Kalish, Humber, Mulvey and Marquez, would have ranked ahead of Blackburn [his top rated guy in the system] . . . I am a Carlos Gomez guy, big-time tools, exciting player, worth getting in my mind."

So Guerra and Gomez would be #1 and #2 in the system. I rate Humber on a par with Bonser two years ago, and Mulvey on a par with Slowey last year (with more ground balls and fewer HRs).

That's not a horrible deal. It's not as good as rumored, but who knows what was actually offered versus what was discussed? And who knows how the Santana contract discussions went. Perhaps only the Mets said they'd pay the 6 year and $150 million extension. So Santana said, "Take what the Mets are offering or wait for me to go to free agency."

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Jan 29, 2008 5:18 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Mets' fans' happiness
Well, I've read about 800 comments from Mets fans, and I haven't yet seen one who simply "likes it."
You can't dust for vomit.

by twinstalker on Jan 29, 2008 7:13 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

please no
If F-Mart ends up being part of the deal, I am happy.  If not, well then I start grasping at straws to console myself:

At least it's over?
These guys could prove me wrong?

Yeah, looking for some kind of soothing balm here.

Gomez doesn't excite me.  We already have a Pridie.  I guess Gomez has more upside, but I really am no more enthused about him than I am Pridie.  Really, it might as well have been Church if you ask me (please let it not be that insisting on Gomez cost us F-Mart!!!)

Uh, I guess it turns out John Manuel is high on Gomez, so there's something...

by adam on Jan 29, 2008 4:53 PM EST   0 recs

forgot to mention
Mulvey and Humber could both start in MLB this year.

by Gil the Pill on Jan 29, 2008 4:57 PM EST   0 recs

Humber, yes, Mulvey, no
Unlike the Mets, the Twins don't push guys from AA unless they absolutely have to. I can see Humber competing for the fifth spot in the rotation. But Mulvey will start in AAA or I'll eat my TC cap.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Jan 29, 2008 5:00 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Gomez
Gomez was called up early last year and hit about 240. he is raw and has to work on his pitching selection. A year in AAA and he could be huge

http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/stats/individual_stats_player.jsp?c_id=nym&playerID=460576

by Gil the Pill on Jan 29, 2008 4:59 PM EST   0 recs

What the hell is wrong with our Management?
They without a doubt take the best asset we have and turn it into the worse possible deal they could. I say we raise money, buy the team and run it ourselves. We couldn't fuck it up worse.

Strib Link: http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/14790236.html

Dear Firpo, looks like my stock is fine.

by MNPundit on Jan 29, 2008 5:05 PM EST   0 recs

NL
He is going to the National League. Twins won't have to face him as much. That has to be worth something. I don't know, just trying to be positive. This package is bad

by WITwinsfan on Jan 29, 2008 5:08 PM EST   0 recs

Bill Smith Sucks
This trade for Santana is pathetic, and continues to show how the Twins are always living for tomorrow instead of today and it gets old.

So then, combining the pieces in the Santana deal, the Guzman deal, the Young deal and the team as it stands right now, the Twins are the best damn AAA team in the majors + Cuddyer, Mauer and Morneau. Might as well trade Nathan for a high A reliever and another AA catcher. Can't have too many of those!

None of these guys were on the "want list" with the Mets. That's great. Way to go Bill! You've done a bang-up job here.

If this really happens like this, I'm done. First they blow the Hunter thing, now this? Whatever.

by neide on Jan 29, 2008 5:11 PM EST   0 recs

Done?
Your not done. You'll come back. They always come back.

by WITwinsfan on Jan 29, 2008 5:12 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Hunter
Yeah, we should have signed Hunter to a suicidal contract that would eat far too much payroll. That'd have been great.

by ravenfly on Jan 29, 2008 5:13 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Not the point
The point about letting him walk wasn't the issue. It was that they blundered so badly in negotiating for a trade or negotiating with him for a new deal.

by neide on Jan 29, 2008 5:17 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Ok...
How did Smith blunder in negotiating a trade?  By not taking the first offer that came along?  Smith's hands were tied because of Johan's no-trade clause.  If he'd taken the Lester/Crisp deal for instance, back in December, you'd have bitched because he didn't wait to see if something better came along.

How did he blunder notiating a new deal?  He offered Johan five years, $100 million...that's a pretty good compromise from six, $140.  I wouldn't be signing him for a six or seven year deal unless they were option years controlled by the club.

At the end of the day, the Mets offer was the only one still on the table.  Santana asked the Twins to make up their mind and make a decision.  They did.

by Jesse on Jan 29, 2008 5:25 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Wrong guy
I was talking about Hunter.

However, this is what you get when you wait too long without the balls to step up to the plate with the cash. Bill Smith fails Kenny Rogers' School of Gambling.

by neide on Jan 29, 2008 5:27 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Hahaha
So you're saying the GM should be wasted 24/7?  Kenny Rogers has a problem, and admitting it is the first step to recovery.

by Jesse on Jan 29, 2008 5:29 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

option B
They could have kept him and said you risk your 100+ million while helping us win this year.

I'm sorry but the Twins made a lot of good moves for the short term that just went for naught.  I thought they had a chance next season with Johan if we got a break with a young starting pitcher next season.

by doofus04 on Jan 29, 2008 8:08 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Yes
I think they were conservatively a 90-win team before this deal. Now they're an 80-win team, tops. But you also have to look at the long term. They won't be as good in 2008, but they'll be a heck of a lot better in 2009 than they would have been going for option B.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Jan 29, 2008 8:14 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Can I just say
that I love your reactions.  It's a good thing I know you in person or I might think you're a dick.

Which you are.  In a good way.

by Jesse on Jan 29, 2008 5:15 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

I am a dick
Seriously though Jesse, take either of the trades that were on the table from Boston or the Yankees and they're far, far better than this, even with Crisp instead of Ellsbury.

Gomez better live up to "potential" in a hurry, Humber had damn well be back from TJ and Guerra and Mulvey need to be regulars in Rochester by the end of the year to show that this even comes close to Hughes, Cabrera and Chamberlain or Lester, Crisp and whoever else Boston was willing to add.

by neide on Jan 29, 2008 5:23 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

We don't know
What was on the table or off the table. We do know that Hughes was on again off again in the discussions and that the Yankees didn't ever make a formal offer. We do know that Joba was off the table from day 1. We do know the two proposals the Red Sox made, which were contingent on working out a deal with Santana. We don't know if they were offers. So let's evaluate this deal on its own merits and stop comparing it to shadow deals that might not ever have been legit.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Jan 29, 2008 5:56 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Okay
Fine. On its merits, aside from all other deals, this deal sucks.

by neide on Jan 29, 2008 5:59 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

No
This deal does not suck compared to one more year of Santana and two draft picks.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Jan 29, 2008 8:16 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

I would assume...
...that neither of the "dream deals" from the Yankees or Red Sox were on the table.  Otherwise we probably would have taken them.  Bill Smith's hands were tied big time.  Santana is on one side saying, "they're offering the money.  Take it or you get no trade at all during the season."  On the other side, the Yankees and Red Sox are saying, "We're not giving up those prospects and the money."  SO MANY variables could have gone into not making the deal with NY or Boston, anywhere from Hank's pocketbook to Santana's whims.  Santana had a bigger hand in this than most people will see right now.  

by Neil on Jan 29, 2008 6:16 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Tell us how you really feel
I'm not getting the love.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Jan 29, 2008 8:00 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

GM concerns
If Terry Ryan had been the point man on this deal, after the trades he's pulled off in the past, I wouldn't be worried at all.  But I have no basis for Bill Smith yet, though I'm sure Ryan was involved.

All I want to know is that Ryan signed off on this deal.  Then I'll be, if not happy, at least placated.

by Jon Marthaler on Jan 29, 2008 5:12 PM EST   0 recs

If Terry Ryan had been the point man on this deal
The Twins would be looking at a good 2008 and draft picks.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Jan 29, 2008 8:00 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

I'm sick
I hate hate hate this.  WHY DIDN'T THEY WAIT 5 MORE DAYS!  THE ANGELS WOULD HAVE UPPED THE STAKES!

Grrrrrrr!

by TheMattWilke on Jan 29, 2008 5:12 PM EST   0 recs

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaghhhhhhhhhhh

Frustration. Let's hope the scouts see something that we don't.

by ravenfly on Jan 29, 2008 5:14 PM EST   0 recs

It is called an impossible situation...
...Mr. Santana, will you please take $100mm over the years 2009-2013; giving you a total of $113mm over the next six years?

...NO!

...Will you continue to talk about an extension and allow us to trade you in July if we cannot work anything out?

...NO!

...OH?

...Mr. Red Sox GM, are your two deals still on the table?

...NO, now that the Yankees are out of it.

...OK!

...Mr. Mets GM, what will you give us, PLEASE?

Don't Blame Bill Smith or the Twins management on this one.  Maybe blame them for not signing him a year or two ago...but not for what is happening now.

by roger on Jan 29, 2008 5:14 PM EST   0 recs

Agreed 100%
If this IS the deal, I'm certainly not brimming with happiness over who's involved, but let's not pretend that Bill Smith had the chance to pick up a Pot o' Gold and settled for an antique tea kettle.  This was a no-win situation, and Smith's hands were tied.

The intelligent options were exhausted.  That doesn't mean we should be happy, but we really can't blame Smith for doing what he had to do.

by Jesse on Jan 29, 2008 5:18 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

By intelligent
options I meant trying to re-sign him at on a reasonable contract (5-years, $100 million counts as reasonable), and trying to get teams to up their offers.  Initial offers from Boston and the Yankees weren't good enough, and waiting them out was a risk Smith had to take or we would have been unhappy that he didn't wait for a better offer.

I'm not sure whether this is better than keeping Johan for a year and picking up two draft picks, but the result is undoubtedly that nobody got what they wanted...except the Mets.  And the Yankees and Red Sox, but keeping Santana from the Red Sox and Yankees.

I'm not happy with the results, but I do believe that if THIS is the deal, that it was the best deal available.

by Jesse on Jan 29, 2008 6:04 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

well yeah
I still blame the Twins management big time.  The Twins didn't get enough to justify the trade period.  They should't have waited.  Even if they only got one year of Johan.

by doofus04 on Jan 29, 2008 8:11 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

A bad sign:
Mets fans seem to love this deal.

by Jon Marthaler on Jan 29, 2008 5:18 PM EST   0 recs

Yup
Exactly. They keep Martinez, Wright, Reyes and Beltran and add Santana? Why wouldn't they be over the moon? They're the favorites in the NL now.

by neide on Jan 29, 2008 5:25 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

This is not good
In fact, it's bad.  It's a bad return for Santana; the situation has not worked out.

There is a non-zero chance here that the Twins got no players who will ever be average major leaguers.  Seriously.  Gomez may very well never learn to hit, and Guerra is so far away and TINSTAPP and such, that it might really work out that way.

There's risk in any deal, but this deal strikes me as all risk, with very limited reward.  What's Gomez's best case?  Given that none of these guys have anything resembling pristine performance records, the risk is just too high.  

by Eric in Madison on Jan 29, 2008 5:20 PM EST   0 recs

Consoling myself
with the thought that Johan will not pitch for either the Yankees or the Red Sox. It would have made me sick to see him in either uniform. The Mets are actually kind of endearing in an underachieving, bumbling, Cubs-esque way.
These largely incoherent thoughts were hurriedly scribbled down

by Victor on Jan 29, 2008 5:36 PM EST   0 recs

Dear Bill Smith
....welcome to the Major Leagues! Hope your ass isn't too sore after this deal.

Inappropriately Yours,
MNPundit

Dear Firpo, looks like my stock is fine.

by MNPundit on Jan 29, 2008 5:44 PM EST   0 recs

Ugh
I am so sad...
-Flip

by Flip27 on Jan 29, 2008 5:51 PM EST   0 recs

Peter Gammons
Just heard him on ESPN say that, essentially, the Twins got screwed.  Both NYY and Boston pulled back their offers lately.  He said that none of these prospects would be top 10 in either the Yankees or Red Sox systems (not sure that that is true).

Gomez is OK.  Mulvey is mediocre.  Humber is a former prospect turned bust (not sure he is that bad, but).  Guerra is a decent prospect at A ball. None is a top-flight prospect.

Basically his reaction was similar to ours here - the Twins got considerably less than they could have a month ago.

These largely incoherent thoughts were hurriedly scribbled down

by Victor on Jan 29, 2008 6:01 PM EST   0 recs

Before we all write off Mulvey...
..take a close look at his numbers.  Now I know that there is more to pitching than numbers and without seeing scouting reports, etc., we don't really know everything about these playes.  But we just collectively voted Swarzak the top prospect in the system.  Now some are saying that Mulvey isn't worth much.  Well, if you look closely at the numbers at AA this year...Mulvey's numbers are very similar to Swarzak.  He is a few months older, had a few less strikeouts and pitched for the entire year.  His ERA, innings, WHIP, etc. were amongst the top 5 or 6 pitchers in the league.

by roger on Jan 29, 2008 6:11 PM EST   0 recs

Too Bad
Was looking forward to the Yankees vs Twins 2009 Division Championship Series Featuring

Liriano vs Santana
Hughes vs Chamberlain
Baker/Blackburn vs Wang
Slowey vs Kennedy

P.S. if Kelly Theiser reports again that a pitcher had a bad start because he didn't keep the ball down, I might have to kill myself.

by caseintheface on Jan 29, 200