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Draft picks versus prospects in trades

A thread over at Sickels' site rates Bill Smith's winter with less homer tendencies than our own thread on the topic.

One aspect of both threads is the debate between trading Santana now for prospects versus hanging onto him for a year and getting draft compensation. USSMariner has an interesting take on this debate relative to Ichiro's pending free agency last year. In it, he shows that history has not been kind to teams who traded players at the deadline for prospects. Teams that waited for draft compensation did better by a pretty wide margin.

Star-divide

Dave has a point. The history suggests that teams do get better value from draft picks than deadline deals. Curiously, he did not take offseason deals, such as the Knoblauch or Pierzinsi trades, into account in his analysis. Had he done so, it swings the percentages closer to acquiring prospects. But still, historically, it is better to wait for draft picks.

Using that as a backdrop, it is remarkable that the Twins have gotten better value with prospects than draft picks almost every time. I would argue that they should have hung onto Castillo for a draft pick. But otherwise, the Twins have bucked the trend and done better than draft compensation. That says a lot about their scouting. They have done better than just about every team in the MLB, save for perhaps Cleveland, at scouting minor league talent for acquisition.

Following is an incomplete list of such trades:

Roberto Kelly/Joe Mays
Dave Hollins/David Ortiz
Chuck Knoblauch/Eric Milton, Cristian Guzman, Brian Buchanon
Rick Aguilera/Kyle Lohse
Hector Corasco/Lew Ford
Brian Buchanon/Jason Bartlett
AJ Pierzinski/Boof Bonser, Francisco Liriano
JC ROmero/Alexi Casilla
Juan Castro/Brandon Roberts
Kyle Lohse/Zach Ward
Luis Castillo/Dustin Martin, Drew Butera
Ramon Ortiz/Matt Macri
Johan Santana/Carlos Gomez, Deolis Guerra, Kevin Mulvey, Phil Humber

Almost every time, the Twins got a regular contributor or more in trade. Often, the guys they traded needed to be dealt sooner rather than later. This suggests that the Twins do a much better job than the rest of baseball at making sure they don't just get warm bodies in exchange, but they get prospects who will help the team down the road.

The point is, for those skeptics who think the Twins didn't get much for Santana, consider their track record. Perhaps these guys aren't rated as highly as we would like. But I trust that the experts running the scouting department for the Twins know what they're doing. They have earned the benefit of the doubt through years of better success than almost all of baseball.

BTW, the Twins have quietly reorganized the scouting department by region. All scouts will have responsibilities for scouting all levels by region, including advanced scouting, minor league scouting and scouting for the draft.

Part of the restructuring includes hiring several new regional scouting directors with a combined 200 years of scouting experience, and adding 10 scouts overall to the payroll. This should make the Twins scouting even better. I'll have more details on the new scouting system in a diary later in the week when I get a better source.

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Revenue Sharing
Great posting cmat,
The Twins definitely have done a nice job of scouting other team's minor league system.
When people question teams about their spending of money from revenue sharing, I don't usually say much. I'm ok with them not spending on major league free agents and such because that rarely works. However, we have talked about putting more dollars into the draft and bigger picture, much more money into scouting. The additions with all the experience would appear to be vital to continued success. Player development and facilities are other areas where I hope some of that money is being spent.

by SethSpeaks on Feb 19, 2008 12:40 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I agree
One of the hidden stories of last offseason was how Terry Ryan went over budget signing free agents such as RonDL and Ray-moan (to use Gordon's pronunciation guide). That left precious little in the budget for the draft and almost nothing for international signings.

I don't think it's a coincidence that the Twins drafted the way they did with their limited budget. I like Revere a lot, but I would have preferred Middlebrooks, all things considered. The Red Sox got him because they were willing to pay.

This year the Twins have a $17 million budget surplus. Hiring a bunch of additional scouts and concentrating them into smaller regions is the first step of what I hope is a multi-step process to attract and sign more and better talent both in the US and abroad, and to upgrade facilities in Venezuela and the Dominican.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Feb 19, 2008 1:02 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Venezuela
when I talked to Mike Radcliff at Twins Fest, I asked about the academies and such in the DR and Venezuela. He said there are actually a lot of teams pulling their scouts and teams out of the country because of the scary regime of Hugo Chavez. If the Twins can stay there, that would be great! Obviously safety is a key too though.

by SethSpeaks on Feb 19, 2008 1:51 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

By the way...
...that's one variable that is never factored into the draft choices versus prospects discussion: Let's say the Twins take the $12 million they save on Santana this year and sign international players with it. They could get 10 guys like Liriano, Guerra, Cabrera or Martinez.

We all lamented the Twins not signing Miguel Cabrera several years ago because they did not have the budget to outbid the Marlins ($1 million), even though he was in he Twins academy. I believe the most we've ever spent is $800,000 on Alex Smit. We've never come close to that in aggregate since.

I doubt the Twins will sign 10 high-profile guys. But they should be able to sign a few guys they had no shot at in past years.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Feb 19, 2008 4:25 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Joe Nathan?
The list gets even better when you add Joe Nathan to the return for AJ...

by Adam Peterson on Feb 19, 2008 2:09 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

More about scouting dept changes
On Feb 7, the PioneerPress posted a Twins' press release about the changes.

http://2007springtraining.blogspot.com/2008/02/twins-announce-scouting-changes.html

by jbohrer on Feb 19, 2008 2:09 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Thanks
I was looking all over for that. Finally, I decided to go from memory.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Feb 19, 2008 4:27 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Sickels
Just said in his QA today that he'd rather have the Mets deal than the draft picks.
Sometimes... you just don't want to get punched in the face...repeatedly...by your daughter.

by maxisagod on Feb 19, 2008 6:49 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

trades are better than draft picks
most of the time we trade a veteran on our team and steal some prospects from them like bartlett for buchanan and didnt forget  about joe nathan in the aj trade so i think that the twins are better off trading for other players than drafting because the last 2 drafts for hitters have been pathetic unless revere can keep up his hitting and joe benson and parmelee can hit sometime soon

by MauerPower07 on Feb 19, 2008 8:35 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

With this team
the trade had to be made if we couldn't sign him. We don't spend enough on the draft to make 2 picks worth more than the 4 players we got from NYM. We probably would have just ended up with Mulvey & Humber lookalikes from the draft, since SP(3-5) seems to be our specialty.
Replace Nick Punto.

by rayken on Feb 19, 2008 11:50 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

history
History has favored the draft picks for several reasons...  I think this has the potential to be an exception, mainly because trades do not typically net 4 or a team's top 10 propsects.  That alone is a big factor.  As well, the Twins have shown history of being better scouting out another team's prospects then actually drafting them.  The chance that one of the four is a homerun is probably decent.  If the others turn only into servicable major leaguers, then we probably came out OK on the deal.

by diehardtwinsfan on Feb 20, 2008 3:45 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Exactly
Beane has a well known theory about drafting college kids over high schoolers because you just know so much more about them after three years of college.

You would think the same principle is true of the low-minors professionals you can acquire in trades. The Twins do a better job of scouting them than they do high-school kids because the managers of the MWL and FSL franchises see them several times.

That's why it's surprising that draft choices do better than prospects. You would think it's generally the opposite for the reasons I just stated.

It would be interesting to break down the draft choices received as compensation into high schoolers and college kids, and see which ones made it and which ones didn't. Perhaps if it were college draftees vs low-minors prospects, it would be closer.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Feb 20, 2008 4:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

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